Welcome back after Easter! I hope everybody had a great time.
Today I want to point you to this article:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/04/sodium-batteries-are-one-step-closer-saving-you-mobile-phone-fire
The title resembles cheap click-bait, but it touches upon a topic which is close to our everyday life - electric battery technology.
Questions to discuss:
1. Is there a place for sodium batteries between the cheap lead-acid and the expensive lithium-ion batteries?
2. Is the low voltage of these batteries a plus or a minus? (pun intended)
3. What consequences would it have for technology, if we could produce batteries without rare earth elements?
4. Do you know any other methods of energy storage competing against Li-Ion?
Easter warm so it was time and place to have a fun. Now I have to go back to reality ...
ReplyDelete1. Is there a place for sodium batteries between the cheap lead-acid and the expensive lithium-ion batteries?
For a long time, scientists and mainly engineers are looking for new low-cost and durable power sources. So most of the batteries fit into the market. They fit in, maybe they will be cheaper, just as strong and will not get auto-ignition.
Let's wait ... what time will bring.
2. Is the low voltage of these batteries a plus or a minus? (pun intended)
Almost like a trifle on the exam. Wordplay. Low is negative, but thanks to this positive - means useful. Because it's and is stable. But it could be higher, then it would be more useful. Stable and high ;-) !
3. What consequences would it have for technology, if we could produce batteries without rare earth elements?
I don't think anyone's considering such batteries at the moment. Everyone in their research includes rare earth elements. Unless I do not know about something.
For technology, it would be a breakthrough. The possibility of storing energy eg in a soap bubble!
4. Do you know any other methods of energy storage competing against Li-Ion?
For example, hydrogen cells. Among other things, the Polish company is developing new hydrogen cells as part of the international Coala project, which is conducted in cooperation with scientists from the German Space Agency, the New Technology Research Center in Ulm and the Gdańsk University of Technology. The biggest advantage of using this technology in the automotive industry is zero emission. Fuel cells allow direct transfer of energy from hydrogen stored under pressure directly into electricity used to supply electric motors.
Thank you for the quick reply, I'm also waiting for the day when a plug-in hybrid conversion kit will cost the same as installing an LPG tank.
ReplyDeleteIt was a pleasure ;-) for me ! THX
Delete1. Is there a place for sodium batteries between the cheap lead-acid and the expensive lithium-ion batteries?
ReplyDeleteI think there is a place for the sodium batteries. Nowadays, the industry concerning the sources of energy is being developed. If the invention is new, safe and relatively cheap, it has an opportunity to be widely applied so the scientist will be able to create the safe and cheap sodium battery. I suppose that the safety maybe the main point for the scientists because the batteries which are widely applied in our smartphones are able to explode, for example in the plane which may cause the dangerous effects.
2. Is the low voltage of these batteries a plus or a minus? (pun intended)
It depends on the appliance we want to use sodium batteries in. As for wearable devices, this kind of power sources would be just perfect, as being significantly cheaper it provides power supply close to lithium batteries. Electric vehicles, on the other hand, demand higher voltage so today’s sodium batteries should be improved to meet this requirement. To my mind the task is quite contradictory, as, according to the article, low voltage ensures durability and sufficient lifetime of sodium batteries. So they will rather play the role of cheap power sources for wearable devices.
3. What consequences would it have for technology, if we could produce batteries without rare earth elements?
I think that it would make power sources cheaper and allow to produce them in greater number of countries due to the fact that sodium is spread significantly wider than lithium. Lithium is mined only in several countries, so the market is quite unstable and prices can change rapidly. Sodium batteries would be safer, the article’s author reports, so they would be more promising solution as a power source for wearable devices compared to lithium-ion batteries, so I think stable and reliable sodium batteries (if such appear) would make a great impact to technology and market.
4. Do you know any other methods of energy storage competing against Li-Ion?
I found very interesting article in the Internet about „10 disruptive batterry technologies trying to compete with lithium-ion”. Here is a link: https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2019/01/10-disruptive-battery-technologies-trying-to-compete-with-lithium-ion/
I read the article and the proton batteries are very interesting for me. I did not know that this kind of batteries exists. The silicon- based batteries seems to be promising as well. The advantage of the silicon-based batteries is fact that they are cheap and can be applied in cars or smartphones.
Well, this article really tells a lot about Li-ion competition.
Delete1. Is there a place for sodium batteries between the cheap lead-acid and the expensive lithium-ion batteries?
ReplyDeleteTo store amounts of energy comparable with amount stored in fuel tanks in our cars, lead-acid would no longer be that cheap - we would run out of lead probably. Right now around 80% of world lead production goes into car batteries (https://www.ila-lead.org/lead-facts), and that is just energy needed for the car lights and engine startup! Any technology that uses abundant elements will help greatly.
2. Is the low voltage of these batteries a plus or a minus? (pun intended)
There are some theoretical limits that depend on voltage, but we are mostly using multi-cell batteries anyway. Just need to connect longer series.
3. What consequences would it have for technology, if we could produce batteries without rare earth elements?
That would be something! Finally, I could say: "I'm all in for renewable energy sources". It's almost beyond imagination how much rocks has to be processed to get raw ore and then smelt pure rare earth metals. There is no possibility to supply enough to allow for common energy storage given batteries need rare earth elements.
4. Do you know any other methods of energy storage competing against Li-Ion?
I think thermite with around 4MJ/kg of energy density (li-ion batteries having around 2.5MJ/kg)? TNT has even more, and also releases energy much faster.
And good old NiMH will stay for a while, as those are dirt cheap compared to Li-Ion while about half as dense, and has much lower self-discharge ratio that 15 years ago.
Great point about lead - I thought it's not a concern (especially as it's so unhealthy), after all alchemists wanted to use it as a raw material to produce gold. Turns out, it's not so abundant after all...
ReplyDelete1.Is there a place for sodium batteries between the cheap lead-acid and the expensive lithium-ion batteries?
ReplyDeleteI think there is a place for this kind of batteries. This technology is very interesting. In nearest future I think it will be available for many people. The great advantages is that this batteries won’t burning. The lead-acid batteries are never absolutely sealed and this would create a danger of explosion due to a high pressure increase in the interior as a result of hydrogen evolution in case of overloading. This won't happen in sodium batteries.
2. Is the low voltage of these batteries a plus or a minus? (pun intended)
I think it depends on that where we will used this technology. In some areas where low voltage is no a problem batteries could be used which success. Maybe in the future the technology will be refined and we could used ot in place where we need high voltage for example in electric cars.
3. What consequences would it have for technology, if we could produce batteries without rare earth elements?
I think that will cause that mamy countries could used this kind of technology. The price could be cheaper and the technology will be available in mamy countries in the world. Today when we use rare earth materials some countries have to pay another countries for product created in some kind of technology because they don’t have resources to produce it.
4. Do you know any other methods of energy storage competing against Li-Ion?
I have found a interesting website about energy stored methods. https://www.azocleantech.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=593
1. Is there a place for sodium batteries between the cheap lead-acid and the expensive lithium-ion batteries?
ReplyDeleteYes, I am sure there is a place for sodium batteries but I am afraid that this technology will not come into wide use quickly. It depends on who will be in possession of the patent for sodium batteries. Let's notice what is going on with such breakthrough technologies as graphene or water engines - no one has used it yet and it has been patented many years ago.
2. Is the low voltage of these batteries a plus or a minus? (pun intended)
In my opinion it is a disadvantage. Today's rechargeable lithium-ion batteries are produced, for example, with 1.2 volts instead of 1.5 volts. If this potential difference can be maintained, it should be fine. Otherwise it may not be enough to feed the receiver. It’s good that Yan’s group is trying to tweak their organic electrode.
3. What consequences would it have for technology, if we could produce batteries without rare earth elements?
The answer is obvious: cheap product and saving of rare elements. Maybe electric cars will eventually be cheaper...
4. Do you know any other methods of energy storage competing against Li-Ion?
Yes, a valve-regulated lead-acid battery. The most popular type of this kind of batteries are those with gel cell. It is used in cars instead of existing sulfur batteries. They are also widely used in large portable electrical devices, off-grid power systems and similar roles, where large amounts of storage are needed at a lower cost than other low-maintenance technologies like lithium-ion.
1. Is there a place for sodium batteries between the cheap lead-acid and the expensive lithium-ion batteries?
ReplyDeleteI think there's a place for such batteries. Especially in electric cars, but also in the storage of energy from renewable sources. These cells can be completely drained (to zero charge) without damaging the active materials. They can be stored and shipped safely. Lithium-ion batteries must retain about 30% of charge during storage, enough that they could short-circuit and catch fire during shipment
2. Is the low voltage of these batteries a plus or a minus? (pun intended)
I don't think that's a problem. With such cells we can build the volume and voltage that we are interested in.
3. What consequences would it have for technology, if we could produce batteries without rare earth elements?
I think that as humans we will not stop using such elements. Even if in the future it would be possible to create batteries based on elements that are common, there will certainly be a new application for those rare, which unfortunately will be depleted all the time. When we come to the moment when there will be fewer and fewer of them it will be a big challenge for the technology.
4. Do you know any other methods of energy storage competing against Li-Ion?
I'm afraid I haven't heard anything specific. From time to time there is information that scientists are working on new batteries and that soon our phones will be able to forget about chargers forever, but then it passes a few years and we still use lithium-ion batteries.
1.Is there a place for sodium batteries between the cheap lead-acid and the expensive lithium-ion batteries?
ReplyDeleteThere is always a place for new technology as long as the expenses that one have to spare for it will be adequate to performance. If the technology does not meet the consumer expectations it will not last in its initial form (check PDA’s devices).
2.Is the low voltage of these batteries a plus or a minus? (pun intended)
As the whole project is still on the beginning of its route, low is ok, higher will be another step in perfecting the technology.
3.What consequences would it have for technology, if we could produce batteries without rare earth elements?
The main flaw in lithium-ion batteries is lithium-ion. If we can resign from lithium-ion we will, in theory, get a really clean Energy.
4.Do you know any other methods of energy storage competing against Li-Ion?
Not as efficient as lithium-ion, no.
1. Is there a place for sodium batteries between the cheap lead-acid and the expensive lithium-ion batteries?
ReplyDeleteA soda battery is no better than a lithium battery, at least not in the context of electricity storage. The bottom line is that a sodium battery is as good as a lithium battery, but much cheaper. Lithium is quite a rare element, hence its acquisition for the construction of batteries is quite expensive, which translates into the prices of the batteries themselves and their devices.
2. Is the low voltage of these batteries a plus or a minus? (pun intended)
Low power batteries are usually made in very large volumes and low cost is usually the most important design goal. A wide range of primary and secondary cells is available to satisfy this need. The range of Cell Chemistries employed is fairly small but the range of available Cell Packaging is very wide. It's a plus that the batteries are low-voltage. And they have been designed for so long.
3. What consequences would it have for technology, if we could produce batteries without rare earth elements?
At the end of the 1980s, the Chinese flooded world markets with supplies of rare earth elements. They sold them at dumped prices. For a quarter of a century, they methodically cut out competition until they monopolized the market. Now the Middle Kingdom is the home of 95 to 97 percent of the world's rare-earth metals production. There may be a problem related to geopolitics.
4. Do you know any other methods of energy storage competing against Li-Ion?
Recently, scientists have discovered a new way of manufacturing batteries. They have suggested using fluoride instead of traditional lithium ions for battery production, which means they have a much longer battery life.
1. The use of other elements, especially those that have a lot of deposits in the world, may be expected by the interest of scientists and producers. If new solutions are cheap in production, why not market it. A big advantage of these batteries is the fact that they are much safer than lead or hydrogen batteries.
ReplyDelete2. Depends on what we will use them, there are many devices using low voltage for example phones. I think that sodium batteries will be a good replacement for current lithium-ion batteries in telephones. We will see what will bring further development of this technology.
3. I think it would have huge consequences. Rare earth elements are expensive and rare, which means that few countries have access to them. I remember someone telling me that because of war in a country that produced cobalt, the price of this element increased five times in those days. This shows that the market for these raw materials is unstable. If it were possible to produce batteries from widely available raw materials, it would certainly be a huge breakthrough. In addition, the universality and cheapness of the raw material would allow wider spread of such energy sources.
4. Unfortunately, no. The only batteries I heard about are those lithium-ion ones. I have heard a lot about hydrogen tanks and the use of hydrogen as an alternative source of energy, but never in the context of batteries.
1. Is there a place for sodium batteries between the cheap lead-acid and the expensive lithium-ion batteries?
ReplyDeleteAn alternative to lithium would also be beneficial because it would create a multifaceted energy infrastructure. Currently, many countries depend solely on fossil fuels for a huge majority of energy production. Sodium-ion batteries operate at a slightly lower potential, which would make them practical for grid storage, but not for electric cars because their energy density would be relatively low.
2. Is the low voltage of these batteries a plus or a minus? (pun intended)
I don't see any problem in this.
3. What consequences would it have for technology, if we could produce batteries without rare earth elements?
I think that it is better for the environment and cheaper to produce.
4. Do you know any other methods of energy storage competing against Li-Ion?
There are Silicon-based batteries, Room-temperature sodium sulfur (RT-NaS) batteries, Proton batteries, Graphite dual-ion batteries, Aluminum-ion batteries, Nickel-zinc batteries, Potassium-ion batteries, Salt-water batteries, Paper-polymer batteries, Magnesium batteries.
1. I think that the main advantage of sodium batteries is that they are cheap and as good sa lithium batteries. Lead acid batteries are also cheap but not as good as lithium ones. I think that there is a place for the sodium batteries, moreover they can even outrage the lead acid and lithium batteries.
ReplyDelete2. I do not know if a low voltage is plus or minus. It depends how they are going to be used. Low voltage may be bad in some cases but in general it do not make a difference. Especially if more batteries can be used.
3. I think that producing technology without rare earth elements may have huge benefits for earth and producers of technology but also some disadvantages for them. The benefits for earth are clear. The benefits for technology creators are that they don’t have to worry about earth resources and they can do their job constantly, not think about the day when earth resources run out and they willl have to quit the business. The disadvantage is that they have to slightly change their manufactures to fit to the new standards.
4.No I don’t know other methods. I think that there exist some like with any other widely used ideas. Such kind of ideas always bring closer innovators.
1. Is there a place for sodium batteries between the cheap lead-acid and the expensive lithium-ion batteries?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, yes. The field of alternative sources of energy is constantly being developed. These batteries are innovative, safe and not that expensive, and there is still room for improvement, so there is a chance that the idea and product will be further developed and enhances.
2. Is the low voltage of these batteries a plus or a minus? (pun intended)
It depends on the item that they are going to be put into. As per article, low voltage makes the batteries durable and safe. On the other hand, everybody wants batteries to be effective and have as much power as possible.
3. What consequences would it have for technology, if we could produce batteries without rare earth elements?
I think it would be a great breakthrough in the world of sources of energy. Such batteries would constitute quite an alternative for lithium-ion batteries.
4. Do you know any other methods of energy storage competing against Li-Ion?
Unfortunately, I'm not an expert in this field, so I cannot recommend any article or refer to any other method of energy storage competing agains Li-Ion.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI deeply believe it is and honestly I am waiting for such “gold” solution between cost and high quality. I have to read more about this issue to get more familiar with this technology.
Of course it would be better to have wide range of voltage available. But the scientists are still working on this, and at the moment we can test solutions compatible with low voltage devices and installations. And after all, if we need to link to the infrastructure with special requirements, we can always any voltage level transfer to higher one.
I guess such possibility of saving rare earth elements would polarize technology solutions for good. In the beginning maybe without big trust, but it could change very fast.
Unfortunately I am not specialist in this subject. It is interesting for me from practical point of view, because it has impact of cost aspect in professionally worked-out solutions and also in our everyday life.
Br, marta
1. Is there a place for sodium batteries between the cheap lead-acid and the expensive lithium-ion batteries?
ReplyDeleteI have to say that before you show me this article I didn't have any foggiest idea that this batteries exists! I think that yes. Moreover they should be popular after a few years. The devices are more and more power economical so after a few years we could produce portable device which will be so ecanomical, that this batteries will be enought for a days or two (like nowadays smartphones). We don't need nothing more. Charger are everywhere so it's not a problem.
2. Is the low voltage of these batteries a plus or a minus? (pun intended)
Of course it is minus, becaouse many devices aren't adapted for lover voltage BUT after a few years (as I said above) I wouldn't suprise is we will make a device which will be created specially for lover voltage.
3. What consequences would it have for technology, if we could produce batteries without rare earth elements?
I think that it will have the biggest impact for price of the batteries which don't have rare elements. Then production cost of that batteries would be several times cheaper than classical Li-Ion batteries.
4. Do you know any other methods of energy storage competing against Li-Ion?
To be honest I heard last year that after inventing graphene Chinese find out a way to produce a very efficient battery which wouldn't contains lithium but I don't knows other details. Furthermore I have never heard about it later so I think that this "very effective battery" wouldn't pass the test in comparasion with typical Li-Ion batteries...
Maybe world doesn't necessarily need batteries made from more common elements. If indeed the mass production would be cheaper and batteries more durable than manufactures would go for it. I think that currently any developments towards green energy would be more welcome, like maybe highly efficient solar panels or something else.
ReplyDeleteThe voltage itself maybe isn't a big deal, you can always add more batteries to power a device, of course considering that they're not too big.
The technology wouldn't probably change too much. After all you can't store more energy or produce more of it with sodium batteries. So maybe some devices just would get a bit cheaper.
I heard about some work on atomic battery that could be commonly used in personal devices. That would change a lot, we could have devices that never need charging. At the same time they could give us a cancer and the humanity would have even greater problem with radioactive waste, but man - who wouldn't like to have a non-stop working device.
ReplyDelete1. Is there a place for sodium batteries between the cheap lead-acid and the expensive lithium-ion batteries?
Yes, because the Sodium Chloride Nickel battery does not contain rare raw materials necessary for the production of lithium-ion.
It consists mainly of common salt (sodium chloride), aluminum oxide, nickel and iron. The disadvantage of this type of device is the need to work at high temperatures to maintain electrolyte in the liquid state. But scientists ensure that Sodium battery do not need to be cooled and thermal insulation is enough for its working.
2. Is the low voltage of these batteries a plus or a minus? (pun intended)
Cell voltages in the serial chain displays high homogeneity, which makes it possible to create batteries from a large number of serially connected cells (up to 200). There is also no adverse effect related to the spread
cell voltages.
3. What consequences would it have for technology, if we could produce batteries without rare earth elements?
Cheap and good energy from common resources? It's almost like a holy grail of technology ;)
4. Do you know any other methods of energy storage competing against Li-Ion?
Fuel cells are an interesting solution, but they do not store energy and use fuel supplied from outside (for example hydrogen) and the oxidation process.
However, they do not need a charging process. Electric cars using fuel cells are a very interesting solution (not to be confused with hydrogen cars).
The scheme of operation of a car with a fuel cell is relatively simple. In the first stage, hydrogen is supplied from the tank to the cell, where air is also supplied, most often using a turbocharger. Then, direct current is transmitted from the cell to the traction converter, where it is converted into alternating current and forwarded to the induction motor. The last step is to transfer the torque to the car's wheels.
1. Is there a place for sodium batteries between the cheap lead-acid and the expensive lithium-ion batteries?
ReplyDeleteIt is always a problem ofmedium shelf, but probably there are some places, like home sensors or kids toy, where you dont need top performace.
2. Is the low voltage of these batteries a plus or a minus? (pun intended)
I am not an expert in this area, but I think there is not a big issue and for some application this can be really big benefit which will give longer life for receivers.
3. What consequences would it have for technology, if we could produce batteries without rare earth elements?
Problem of rare earth elements is growing, but sometimes silenced in main information stream. Our technology is more and more addicted to this elements and main producer of it is China and some not stable African countries, but still we are planing to use i.e. electric cars, where we need kgs of some rare elements.
4. Do you know any other methods of energy storage competing against Li-Ion?
I read some articles about graphen batteries or biological batteries using cells to store energy, but I didnt heat, that some of this technology is not avaible for industrial use.
1. Is there a place for sodium batteries between the cheap lead-acid and the expensive lithium-ion batteries?
ReplyDeleteI think that's because soda batteries are cheaper to make and use. Although they do not yet have such properties as lithium-ion batteries, they are still undergoing research and are apparently promising.
2. Is the low voltage of these batteries a plus or a minus? (pun intended)
Unfortunately, I am not an expert in this field and I can not answer this question clearly.
3. What consequences would it have for technology, if we could produce batteries without rare earth elements?
First of all, the technology would be significantly cheaper due to the use of generally available elements (easily available).
4. Do you know any other methods of energy storage competing against Li-Ion?
I found a talking article and Zinc Matrix Power batteries. Silver, zinc and water are used for their production. As claimed by the producer, they are cheaper to produce, safer for users and the environment, and highly energetic (more efficient than lithium-ion).