Christmas
is coming, so I decided to egg you on small talk about confession. Don’t be
afraid, no traditional one, what I mean is doing it through Internet…
…
and all the issues using IT tools in this respect. For example, there are some
helpful apps:
As
long as online form is not appropriate according to particular church
authorities, there is no serious issue in serious discussion. But, to be
honest, I can’t see the reasons, why it couldn’t be acceptable – after all
traditional confession assumes priest being only substitute of God, who is the
real Party forgiving the sins. So, what do you think about it? – this is my
question no.1.
Question
no.2: Do you think online confessions should be acceptable by church
authorities as valid ones? Answer assuming two options: 1) confessions through
internet, but with person (priest) engaged, 2) confessions with AI system,
using the proper church rules. Please explain your attitude.
And,
the last issue. As we know, there is no church authorities’ acceptance of such
solution. In my opinion, however, this is a matter of human mind’s limit, and
this is about to change very soon, as fast as the IT tools used in everyday
life are more and more popular. It is not possible the technology revolution
could avoid any field, the “religious” ones in particular. Do you agree, or
not, and why? – here we’ve come to the question no.3.
In
the end I would like to wish you all MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR.
Kind
regards,
Marta
Thank you Marta for interesting article. However I have not enough education in this area so I will answer short and incomplete. I'm very curious about using AI technology to make an confession. I believe true confession should include real priest. The person who can guide you how to go out from the sin or educate you that you don't commit serious or deadly sin. So this is not a trivial assignment for the simple chatbot. However I see potential here with tool that can train young priest before he confess people.
ReplyDeleteOh, you mean confession simulator... :-) Nice idea, thank you for your response.
ReplyDeleteChurch is not my area of interest, same when it comes to Christmas, it is very hard for me to answer you questions. I think if you are a beliver you should not be intressted in making confession online (who knows who can read your confession). So I think same as Piotr that real confession should be done in proper place with proper people. If sombody is disable and can not go to the church then pries should go and visit this person. We should not make our lives easier just because we can reaplce person with AI.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThanks for this article. Nice idea but unrealistic in my point of view :) I think that answers for this questions should be formulated from religious perspective rather than scientific. It's not about understanding artifficial intelligence and technology but the way that confession works. I think this is a place where tachnology can't replace human because of tradition and rules of particular religion.
ReplyDeleteThank You for interesting article. Obviously I cannot imagine something like that in Poland since Ojciec Dyrektor is in charge of such decisions. I am very frustrated with the religion situation in our country and how political it is. However I think that in US it is more than possible to became a valid solution. If it was a video conversation not a chat I think it would be very similar. I think that using AI and making it all about technology is a bit too much. Probably if there is no priest it is not valid. I remember that some time ago there was a website where you could donate money and some priests were suppose to pray for your intention. Many people used that there was more that few millions dollars collected. At the end police found out that the website was fake and ordinary person just came up with such idea to make some money.
ReplyDeleteThank you very much for a really interesting and unique article. I've never thought of confessing online:) I agree with Cezary that such an option may soon be introduced in churches in the US. Americans do like everything that can be done from home. One doesn't have to go out and drive anywhere. It is also true, from my perspective, that online confessions won't be applicable when it comes to Polish church, as it is really conservative and traditional. It will take years to convince priests and then catholics all over the country that using Internet and computers as means of dialogue is not a sin and they won't burn in hell for using it.:)
ReplyDeleteIf someone read this, he could be very surprised, that IT people don't believe in fast technological domination in "spiritual" area ;-) I am sure a good example from other countries will influence also our society, and it will happen just in the moment when political option is about to change.
DeleteI'm not a religious person, but in terms of confession, I like the Pentecostal approach the most. In the Pentecostal Church, there is no obligation to confess a priest unless the faithful so wishes. General or personal confession takes place before God. They believe in the presence of a living God who sees and hears everything, and only He cleanses and justifies. The requirement for an "intermediary" in the form of a priest or app simply does not appeal to me :) Best wishes to you too!
ReplyDeleteAccording to me, online confession is not a good idea: There is a problem of privacy and data security. If you suggest AI as a confessor, how does it differ from the lack of confession or confession to an empty window or wall or confession in mind? And according to me, the lack of online confession is not a limitation of the mind. It's a bit like saying: why do not we send 50 scientists at the same time, they could work more. Confession is not giving information and receiving instructions :)
ReplyDeleteYou're right with the security aspect. I can imagine murderers' confession, the police would be very interested in that...
DeleteI'm not a religious person, but I may imagine that confession through chat either with human or AI wouldn't work. After all, it should be a spiritual experience for people who believe in it. I like interacting with computers but I haven't experienced anything spiritual in it yet :) I just think that in any religion there is no place for technological substitutes. Of course, everything changes if we're talking about objectified religion, like for example in elementary school when you have to learn few prayers by heart to get grades and you even don't understand all the words let alone spiritual aspects.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree. Spiritual experiences can't depend on the transfer's way ;-)
Delete>I just think that in any religion there is no place for technological substitutes.
DeleteIsn't mass transmitted over the radio a technological substitute? And yet it counts, at least partially I think, doesn't it?
During a mass there is a time for a lecture given by a priest and maybe this is the main value of a "remote mass" on radio or TV.
DeleteI'm not a religious person too. And it is hard from my point of view have opinion on this topic. Regardless I have some thoughts.
ReplyDeleteIf you put your private concessions into a online system how you think this data will be and should be secured? I have doubts that someone will not use this information for statistical and marketing purpose
1.
ReplyDeletePriest represents God. When you have a direct conversation with priest it is something private, which cannot be guaranteed with the chat or something. And I'm not into spying right now. But it just happens e.g. within the bus that one guy is reading the conversation of another one, sitting next to him.
Also, can you imagine someone playing with your phone and finding your sins accidentally?
2.
I don't think it should be accepted as a form. It would be much easier to trick someone that you are a priest and get to know his sins.
With AI it's even worse. I don't have enough data, but knowing my example I think it is much harder to find some patterns within sins than in many other areas.
Do you think AI psychologist would work?
3.
I don't agree. E.g. Catholic Church is here for 2000 years not because it changes frequently, adapting to the technology trends, but because it is stable and big changes don't happen.
Discussion abot ethics, religion and politics are always very risky but let us try 😊
ReplyDelete1. Confession is not about saying words or phrases that you’ve learned at school. It is a bigger and much deeper process and process is the proper word here. It is often time for discussion with the priest who can show you some parts of your life from different angle. From my point of view you can’t just send an email with a list of your sins and say “ok, I’m done now”
2. Point 1 maybe. I’m not sure about that. Probably it can/should be accepted for disabled people but even no if someone that can not go to church can be visited by a priest on demand. Point 2 no, and my arguments are in answer on first question. It is not a mechanical process so it is not a place for AI. I’m not ordering a pizza.
3. Don’t make from IT next god. Fact that it is entering a lot of areas of our lives does not mean that it must enter every. For me, old-school paper books give me much more fun than e-book. I like going to pub and talk to waitress not to some kind of machine. IT is great in many areas but it should keep away from many of them as well
1. I am not very religious and confessions are rather an abstract idea for me. Apart from that, the core of this activity is to share sensitive information and this may be the most problematic topic. On the other hand, it is not so hard to retrieve such information about the 'sins' from our computers. So the things shared via such platform are not so valuable. It might be a great idea just to simply integrate some sinful statistics from your computer with such a confession program to check if you repent and stopped for example 'hate speech' on forums or doing other sinful things.
ReplyDelete"Question no.2: Do you think online confessions should be acceptable by church authorities as valid ones? Answer assuming two options: 1) confessions through internet, but with person (priest) engaged, 2) confessions with AI system, using the proper church rules. Please explain your attitude."
I have no attitude towards these issues.
"And, the last issue. As we know, there is no church authorities’ acceptance of such solution. In my opinion, however, this is a matter of human mind’s limit, and this is about to change very soon, as fast as the IT tools used in everyday life are more and more popular. It is not possible the technology revolution could avoid any field, the “religious” ones in particular. Do you agree, or not, and why? – here we’ve come to the question no.3."
I don't understand this question.
Thank you for an interesting article. I believe that Church authorities will be reluctant to refer to such solutions. The reason is obvious - this increases the risk of breaching the secret of confession. What's more, the use of artificial intelligence tools destroys the order defined by the sacraments. Another important issue is the conservative approach of the Church - which is criticized on the one hand and stabilization on the other. Apart from that, the number of priests in Western countries changes proportionally with the frequency of the use of religious practices. However, the regions in which the church is young and there is the shortage of priests have problems with poverty and intelligent solutions are not available to them.
ReplyDeleteI wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
Regards
W. M.
As a theologian, I completely agree with the answer to the question on the presented website.
ReplyDelete1) Why it couldn’t be acceptable?
Because it is a sacrament and online confessions would simply reduce the dimension of this mystery. Of course, the priest is only an intermediary, but also the only one intended for that. In my opinion the Catholic Church will not change its position in this aspect (basically for many reasons), which I personally agree with.
2) Do you think online confessions should be acceptable by church authorities as valid ones?
I'm sure it will not be accepted. Neither confessions through internet with priest engaged nor confessions with AI system, using the proper church rules. Why? I analyze the teaching of the Church that I have learned and I do not see a chance for such opportunities. It's as if the Eucharist was celebrated by a robot…
3) I agree that the technology revolution won’t avoid the Catholic Church. The Church currently uses the technological discoveries and in general is not backward in this aspect. On the other hand not all available solutions are accepted, which also seems reasonable.
In conclusion I do not intend to defend the Church because I can see a lot of changes that should be carried out but on the other hand online confessions violate privacy and undermine the rank of the sacrament as a grace.
Hi Marta!
ReplyDeleteThank you for an article. I am not a Catholic, so it is difficult for me to express my opinion in this topic. It looks, that technology is entering more and more aspects of human lives. Even the spiritual part of it. I am not sure if it is ok or not but if it brings comfort and calm for human psyche maybe it is worth to consider.
Thank you for your wishes. Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to you too :)
1. From religion law point of view there must be a person in this situation - you have description in Bible. Moreover I think from perspective of a psychology it is important that person will talk with you. Man's happiness is not only a matter of observing the rules, so it can not be described by means of algorithms.
ReplyDelete2. Church may accept online confession. But I think there will be no people willing to use this service due to security reasons.
3. I think technology should avoid some areas. I don't understand Japanese weddings with robots.
MERRY CHRISTMAS
Hi!
ReplyDeleteI think it's not necessary to change teaching to allow online confessions, merely altering some definitions will suffice.
Like you can re-define beaver or capybara as fish w.r.t. Lent.
So yes, online confession is kind of inevitable.
This is a controversial topic which shows how much ideas for the 'betterment' of RCC can be circulated. There are, however, far fewer such suggestions when it comes to replacing ministers of other religions with AI.
ReplyDeleteI'll paraphrase your questions below to fit a convenient Q&A format.
1. Priest as a proxy. God as the actual service provider. Why not replace proxy?
The answer follows from the facts above. If the priest is just a service supply channel, it is not up to him to find replacements for his role. If God himself decided to cut out the middle man, so would it be.
2. Alternate confession - to AI instead of the priest?
AI would not be able to give a valid absolution, but it could be helpful in the examination of conscience: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Examination_of_conscience
I would not be surprised, if there already was 'an app for that', by the way.
The problem with AI is, that it is not a spiritual being. There is, according to religion, a separate spiritual reality, which is beyond the material. Both basic physical reality, as well as information and mental processes belong to the sphere of matter. The existence of the spiritual realm can neither be proven nor disproved by material means. It is also not scientific in the sense of being falsifiable - there is no experiment prescribed by religion which could disprove it.
3. Is 'all this' inevitable?
The question comes up quite often lately. My answer is: nothing is really inevitable when it comes to human society (social constructs, that is - we will e.g. run out of some of our energy sources - and this is inevitable). Except death nothing is certain. Some people add taxes to it. Death in this saying should encompass the thermodynamic death of the universe as well - there is no Elon Musk to save us from that. And no technology to survive with our consciousnesses 'backed up' (downloaded) on it. Nor would there be anything to restore these backups afterwards, anyway.
I think the RCC has spent an enormous amount of effort since 1962 in the hopes of being 'up to date'. These efforts might be counterproductive in the spiritual realm. If the Sacrament of Confession was to be reformed due to technological and societal advances, it would be long overdue - literacy was the first major information revolution, and yet there was no confession through mail. Telephone didn't change that, e-mail didn't change that, and the current advances also won't.
A1. Do you really think it's a viable choice. I think it's more about going to church and having a spiritual journey or something. I'm not very religious. Maybe we should start working on AI to replace priests completely?
ReplyDeleteA2. Why not? They will probably charge us for it anyway.
A3. Probably not, we will either ditch church completely or go medieval :D
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletehi, thanks for the interesting article. I was pretty sure that day will come. I am a person who trust in God and I can not imagine online confession :). I am opponent of confession to the priest. Everyone should perform the confession in loneliness during prayer. Sometimes I go to priest to the confession but I do not like it - it is still a man who listens my mistakes :).
ReplyDeleteMy question is: what does the pricelist looks like?
I ride to fast: 30PLN
I do not have a time to go to the church on every Sunday: 150 PLN
And payment method: standard bank transfer or paypal?
Regards.
I have mixed feelings.
ReplyDeleteHow it will works? Any IT system could save every word which we say or write. It's really dangerous becouse some of this information would be more valuable than money.
More over in some situation priest wouldn't forgive sins. It would be extremely hard for AI.
I think that church need plenty of time to interest this solution.
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