BrainNet: A Multi-Person Brain-to-Brain Interface for Direct Collaboration Between Brains
Please read the paper available from below link:
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1809.08632.pdf
You can also find it's summary on the YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IsIGp1IezE
What is your opinion about the idea of Brain-to-Brain Interface? Do you think that we dispose enough amount of knowledge about our brains and we have methods to do it properly?
Probably you have also heard about Neuralink, which is a company founded by Elon Musk and eight others, reported to be developing implantable brain-computer interfaces (BCIs). The founder says he will soon announce a Neuralink product that can make anyone superhuman by connecting their brains to a computer. He also says that Neuralink increases the data rate between the brain and computers and will give humans a better shot at competing with AI.
Do you think that eventually, Brain-Computer Interfaces would be as accurate and fast, as traditional input devices, such as mouse and keyboard? Or maybe it would be utterly incomparable to them?
Do you think that eventually, Brain-Computer Interfaces would be as accurate and fast, as traditional input devices, such as mouse and keyboard? Or maybe it would be utterly incomparable to them?
ReplyDeleteI really hope that one day they will. Not only because of disabled people who are having a lot of troubles to use current interfaces, but also for regular usage of everyone. It may help with productivity of professionals, but also elderly who are still having troubles with computer usage.
And of course I have heard about Neuralink, I am not sure whether they will show it soon, since they always say that it will be soon. But I have huge hope and believe in Musk and his companies, since he really take it seriously and if anyone is suppose to do it, I think he is the one.
What is your opinion about the idea of Brain-to-Brain Interface? Do you think that we dispose enough amount of knowledge about our brains and we have methods to do it properly?
My first thought is that it is scary. Or even terrifying. Of course there are pros and cons, as with everything in life. Simply the transfer of knowledge, learning fast like in Matrix movie, science and many more areas of life would be so amazingly easier and less time consuming. Those arguments make it exciting, if we could just spend few hours instead of years in school. The same with university and research, if we could not start from scratch, but continue from advance level we could achieve so much more in a lifetime. I hope that thanks to this it would be possible to stop many terrorists, thieves and, in an easier way, to oversee the law, to interrogate people and to enforce punishment.
On the other hand, I am always having bad thoughts and think about disadvantages. What if people will use it to deceive others, cause financial crisis or similar. However I do not think that we are neither ready technologically nor we have sufficient knowledge.
Cezary, thank you for your comment. I also hope that they will be developed one day and they will enhance our productivity and enable new ways of communication methods for disabled.
DeleteHi Czarek, I didn't think about disabled people before I went through your comment. It's an excellent point. I share your opinion that BCI can be a fantastic support for the people.
DeleteWhat is your opinion about the idea of Brain-to-Brain Interface?
ReplyDeleteDo you think that we dispose enough amount of knowledge about our
brains and we have methods to do it properly?
Everything seems to indicate that this is exactly what will happen.
They implant an interface on our head and we will control our computer
thoughts with no hands or legs like now. How accurate will these
interfaces be? Personally, I think that very much! What neurosurgeons
perform today (eg implanting implants in the brain that improve
short-term memory) using, for example, nanowires, guarantees that soon
they will implant communication implants with great accuracy.
Do you think that eventually, Brain-Computer Interfaces would be
as accurate and fast, as traditional input devices, such as mouse and
keyboard? Or maybe it would be utterly incomparable to them?
And here I must admit that if the connection with the computer does,
then the brain brain connection may be more difficult. Everyone who
has wondered about the complexity of the brain knows that strange things
happen to him, very strange things. Therefore, such a connection may not
occur quickly, and if it occurs it may cause irreversible effects.
Thank you, I also think that this is precisely what will happen. However, it will take some time.
DeleteI think this is interesting idea. Science is developing very fast so probably in a future we will be able to make brain-to-brain interfaces properly. I wonder what purposes it could have? Maybe connecting eith disable people who cannot express themselves. It is scary thing to connect computers and brains but i hope it may have advantages.
ReplyDeleteI think that if it is possible to make computer-brain interface then sooner or futher it will be fast and efficient as other devices.
Katarzyna, thank you for your comment, I also think that there is a large field of the disabled people life enhancement.
DeleteWhat is your opinion about the idea of Brain-to-Brain Interface? Do you think that we dispose enough amount of knowledge about our brains and we have methods to do it properly?
ReplyDeleteOur brain is a very complicated organ. I think there are still many years of research before we fully understand it, if possible at all.
Do you think that eventually, Brain-Computer Interfaces would be as accurate and fast, as traditional input devices, such as mouse and keyboard? Or maybe it would be utterly incomparable to them?
I hope that in the future we will be able to effectively control the computer without any external devices and only with the help of the brain. This would give unimaginable possibilities, in combination with the currently developing techniques of smart homes would allow to control all devices only with thoughts.
Przemysław, thank you for your voice in the discussion!
DeleteInteresting. I've heard Musk talk about it some time ago (the bandwidth asymmetry between visual input and textual output) and the BMI, as I like to call it.
ReplyDelete1. What is your opinion about the idea of Brain-to-Brain Interface?
It's still completely devoid of the actual meaning of the information processed in the brain. More like communicating computers by giving them both thermal sensors to the other one. Yes, it is possible to transfer information that way, but the bandwidth is completely preposterous compared to the internal interfaces (memory bus / interconnect) withing each of these computers. And it was about 30% better than random, for a single bit of information. It's stil a long way from here.
2. Do you think that we dispose enough amount of knowledge about our brains and we have methods to do it properly?
No, we don't. I'm especially worried about the machine to brain interface - i.e. trying to influence the brain. Magnetic stimulation may be somwhere on the spectrum between scalp massage and a lobotomy, but we still know too little to "write" the brain. We should concentrate our efforts on "mind reading" before we make any attempts to poke information in. And the visual channel, so far, from smartwatch screens to VR goggles, is good enough for now.
3. Do you think that eventually, Brain-Computer Interfaces would be as accurate and fast, as traditional input devices, such as mouse and keyboard? Or maybe it would be utterly incomparable to them?
I think that eventually we're all going to be dead, as lord Keynes pointed out. There is some risk there - even voice interfaces are prone to people saying something stupid. It's all too easy - and reflection may come when trying to type something. Right now we still filter what we say, but thoughts sometimes hit us instantaneously. What if someone thinks about killing their boss? Should the machine be accurate and fast in carrying it out? It's a bit like one of my bosses was very big on speed typing. All the programmers in his team were encouraged to practice touch-typing if they weren't proficient in it already. One wise guy opposed it. Our task, as he argued, was not to write more code, but the right code for the problem at hand.
What I could see on the horizon are some nice gadgets - "mind reading" built into headphones, which will be able to turn the volume down when they detects I'm getting irritated, pause some video when it detects the need for it (loss of concentration, other communication), or suggest a break if the brain wave levels dip too low.
Thank you, Tomasz, for your comment. I do agree with you that we are far away from a fast and accurate solution of that kind. Data transfer and methods of communication are very primitive when we take under consideration the complexity and possibilities of our brain. Also, magnetic stimulation that you'd mentioned is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. We need far more precise methods for brain stimulation and data acquisition to achieve more reliable results.
DeleteWhat is your opinion about the idea of Brain-to-Brain Interface? Do you think that we dispose enough amount of knowledge about our brains and we have methods to do it properly?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, the idea of Brain-to-Brain Interface is just the first step to understand, how the brain works, and how to communicate. I think that we should to look rationally what has been done and I doubt it will be a near future. Of course, I respect the idea, but I don’t understand how the interface should choose what we think of a many things? Tomasz wrote earlier, is just a machine that translates everything.
Do you think that eventually, Brain-Computer Interfaces would be as accurate and fast, as traditional input devices, such as mouse and keyboard? Or maybe it would be utterly incomparable to them?
As for the speed and accuracy of the interface, I think it won’t be able to be as accurate as a mouse or keyboard. Because the input devices have a deterministic system, the brain considers many cases at once (probability). The problem is to find a method that allows to convert from a deterministic system to a probabilistic system. On the beginning interface will be generate a lot of mistakes.
Artur, you'd mentioned a fundamental issue about brain signal analysis. The human brain is a complex nonlinear system showing complicated emergent properties, including consciousness and it is a really non-trivial task to analyse its signals.
DeleteThank you very much for an interesting article. When it comes to your questions...
ReplyDelete1.What is your opinion about the idea of Brain-to-Brain Interface? Do you think that we dispose enough amount of knowledge about our brains and we have methods to do it properly?
The idea itself is really great.Such interface would of great help for disabled people, but I'm afraid that for the time being scientist do not have enough knowledge about human brain, its capabilities and limitations. Of course, there is no other way to make progress than to try and learn from one's mistakes and experience. I really do hope that trials and tests won't end with "partial lobotomy" of research subject.
Do you think that eventually, Brain-Computer Interfaces would be as accurate and fast, as traditional input devices, such as mouse and keyboard? Or maybe it would be utterly incomparable to them?
Maybe yes, maybe no. At this point, one cannot foresee how such Brain-Computer Interface will work. I guess the final version of the device should provide maximum accuracy with minimum effort. But I agree with Artur that the fact that brain considers many cases and instances at the same time may constitute a problem and huge constraint when it comes to obtaining the same level of speed and accuracy as the ones of a mouse or keybord.
I work a lot on BCI systems. All BCI systems focus on peaking the eeg signal from the skull surface. This signal is suppressed by the skull bone and muscle artifacts. Neuralink removes these limitations. But this does not mean that the system will be accurate. This inaccuracy is due to the fact that the signal reaching Neuralink is a component of millions of brain structures that work simultaneously. In addition, the components often cancel each other out.
ReplyDeleteIn addition. The operation of BCI systems is based on the existence of potentials. However, they do not always exist. Also from a purely physical point of view, it will not be possible to do what is the guiding principle in the article.
I was very struck by this article. I have not dealt with this information. and it's hard for me to express my opinion. Unfortunately. we do not yet have the full range of information about the human brain. But I think that this technology will be a great breakthrough for humanity, but I do not think that it can be quickly implemented. After reading the comments above, I think that this is a good idea, but it is very poorly implemented.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad that you'd found this article interesting!
DeleteIts a very interesting topic. I think that we don't know everything about our brain. We will see what the future brings. At the moment I agree with Andrzej Kawiak
ReplyDeleteThank you for your opinion.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think Brain-Computer Interfaces will outperform all currently known input devices.
ReplyDeleteNowadays you can ask Alexa or another voice recognizing device to find somethink in Google or do shopping for you without touching the mouse or keyboard using only your voice so imagine if instead of your voice you can just thought about somethink and this will be interpret by some interface and will be done.
This was application for casual use, for something more work related think about how your life woud be easier and more effective if you can just calculating things not in your mind, but easly trasfer this calculation to computer and just get results in a fraction of a second. Moreover in the same way you can ask for some data from database without writing any statemnt or write a code by only a thinking of code structure, without writing it.
Working Brain-to-Brain interface would be also a breakthrout invention. Of course we are still far a way of 100% working solution and we need to do a lot more to understand electric impluses in our head and how this impulses can build somethink as complicated as full thought, but I belive we need go this way. Think how many times you were stuck in explaining some idea to somebody using a lot of words without any effect. How your work will be more effective if you can share some problem with your college just by sending him your thought.
1. What is your opinion about the idea of Brain-to-Brain Interface?
ReplyDeleteI think we don't need this kind of Interfaces that changes our personalities. More than Brain2Brain Interface we need new eyes for seeing. Our natural eyes go down too quickly because of more artificial lights, TV's, phones. I think the voice gives us more aspects than only communication. The voice gives us emotional information, make us happier or sadder. The voice can be recorded and next heard by many. I don't see the good way to change the voice-communication into another, because of nothing better in this area.
2. Do you think that we dispose enough amount of knowledge about our brains and we have methods to do it properly?
I am sure no. We know almost nothing about a mind. We know much more than ten years ago, and it is enough for simple researches. However, we are ready technically to do much more in this. The technology, AI and quantum-computing will bring the missing pieces of the brain-puzzle.
3. Do you think that eventually, Brain-Computer Interfaces would be as accurate and fast, as traditional input devices, such as mouse and keyboard? Or maybe it would be utterly incomparable to them?
Brain-computer Interface (BCI) is a collaboration between a brain and a device, but a mouse or a keyboard is a collaboration process: a brain (a nerves signal from the brain to hands) and hand/hands muscles. The simple analysis shows us the first way should be the fastest way of collaboration. However the most important is a proper way of nerves signal interpretation. I think the brain-device may work slower than brain which use his signal nerves sensors to involve hand's nerves to type something. There is a long way - I suppose - to create a BCI, which will be faster than mouse/keyboard. I think the easiest way is using a voice.
Of course, I am sure, in a few years, we will be able to see the BCI which is faster than hands. I don't know if you watched the minority report movie. I am worried that we will be able to create the BCI which will be able to predict what we want to type on screen and it suggests earlier than we process the command in the brain.
I think the two types of communication methods are comparable. Both of them describe the same purposes and base on this we can decide which one is better in the faster meaning.
Thank you, Agata. I also see a large field of human body enhancement by its extension with external devices (such as new eyes). Concept form the "Ghost In The Shell", where Batou got new eyes seems tempting for me!
DeleteHi Artur! It's my pleasure to read your post and comment the one. Many thanks.
DeleteThat’s a very interesting topic.
ReplyDeleteOur brain is a very complex organ. However, every year neurobiology provides new information about the processes taking place in the brain. I think that with the technological advancement we will be able to better reflect operations of our brain using a computer. I am very interested in the future of this interface, as well as Neuralink. When scientists are able to connect the brain and computer correctly, there will be another technological revolution. As a player, I am also waiting for the possibility of a full immersion into the virtual world, not only with VR goggles, but with all the senses.
As for the accuracy and speed of the interface, I think it depends heavily on the performance of current computers. In my opinion, the brain is a very fast and efficient "device". The question is whether the computational speed of the computer can match in real time the speed of transmission between neurons in our brain.
Yes, I'm also looking forward to seeing the "killer app" for VR that immerse all senses :)
Delete1. What is your opinion about the idea of Brain-to-Brain Interface? Do you think that we dispose enough amount of knowledge about our brains and we have methods to do it properly?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion the idea of Brain-to-Brain Interface is quite nice. BCIs are applied not only in medicine but also in entertainment. They are based on EEG signals which include for example event evoked potentials, evoked potentials or steady state visually evoked potentials. Nowadays, there are lots of BCIs which use EEG technique and they are applied for instance to steer the drone or help disabled people in everyday life. I doubt that a multi-person brain to brain interface can be widely used in the near future. I think that we do not have enough amount of knowledge about our brains to create these kind of interfaces properly. I do not understand how mentioned interfaces could manage with more complicated activities. I am concerned to some extent about magnetic stimulation of the occipital cortex which authors mentioned in their research paper. It could be misused in the future. Somebody will be able to have an influence on our brain by using such of stimulus.
2. Do you think that eventually, Brain-Computer Interfaces would be as accurate and fast, as traditional input devices, such as mouse and keyboard? Or maybe it would be utterly incomparable to them?
Neuralink company say that its product that can make anyone superhuman by connecting their brains to a computer. It sounds like a movie! Personally it makes me scared. I doubt that they will release it in the near future. It seems to be not true. The consequences of using such a device on vide scale may be unpredictable. On the other hand, this product can help disabled people and help to solve very complicated problems using power of computer.
I suppose that Brain Computer Interfaces would not be accurate and fast as a traditional input devices in the near future. Scientists constantly try to improve the BCIs but they depend on other devices, so it is more difficult to obtain such accuracy in BCIs.
In my opinion the idea of Brain-to-Brain Interface is a great solution. Especially for disabled people. This method gives people with inertia the ability to transmit signals, and in the future to communicate between people. Of course, research is at the very beginning of the path to the goal. In the future, appropriate methods will be probably discovered.
ReplyDeleteA human brain has a very high capacity, so the data transfer can be also very quick. I suppose it would be possible to create so high-speed interfaces as we use to transfer data with computer. To my mind it will be enough to receive good communication between other computers or human beings.
In contrast to some bloggers, I do not feel the threat associated with such a possibility. I’m full of good thoughts.
For me the setup of the experiment was too simple to there already exist a good way to transmit a signal between brains that can be properly encoded by a receiver. I would like to see similar experiment with some more demanding task considering very limited number of trials, it could be for example guessing picture of what animal from list of 100 was presented to senders etc. But to use such tool as a communication interface it should allow for exact decoding of the signal in such a way that it can be clearly visualised by the receiver as it was his own thought. Currently it probably something like some vogue "feeling".
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of brain enhancements especially in the context of disabilities as already stated in previous comments.
I'm not sure, but it seems that electrical activity of a brain doesn't encode any complex processes. Maybe it's possible to make a quite accurate device to move a cursor on the screen, but it will be hard to outperform a manually controlled device and it may be impossible to for example type specific characters.
What is your opinion about the idea of Brain-to-Brain Interface? Do you think that we dispose enough amount of knowledge about our brains and we have methods to do it properly?
ReplyDeleteI think we already have those: right now we are passing information from one brain to the other. There is quite continuous difference between different kinds of interfaces, progressing from speach and writing through voluntary passing single bits and voluntary interpreting those (as in mentioned paper) through synchronizing emotions to direct thought exchange. With new knowledge gained on the way our brains operate, we are moving along the line further and further.
When I first read this paper I was amazed, but then after some thinking I realized it is just two known pieces linked together. But again we are further.
Probably you have also heard about Neuralink, which is a company founded by Elon Musk and eight others, reported to be developing implantable brain-computer interfaces (BCIs). The founder says he will soon announce a Neuralink product that can make anyone superhuman by connecting their brains to a computer. He also says that Neuralink increases the data rate between the brain and computers and will give humans a better shot at competing with AI.
Do you think that eventually, Brain-Computer Interfaces would be as accurate and fast, as traditional input devices, such as mouse and keyboard? Or maybe it would be utterly incomparable to them?
I haven't heard of Neuralink, but after checking Wiki article and its links, I've found out a new book series to read.
I think while BCI could become fast and accurate, it won't be anything like keyboard and mouse. Each input device has its own intricacies and quirks (like differences between PC and console games input, or this "Using Python to Code by Voice" video), so I'm expecting the next BCI to be something wholly different from what we do now.
EEG signal in real time BCI expremiments is hard to use.
ReplyDeleteExperiments in real time BCI and also experiment presented above are using very simple 0-1 actions based on distinguish 2 signals.
For example – just imagine keyboard controlled by the mind. Maybe you heard about that product. But this is not the same fast way to use it with your brain, like you do it using your fingers on computer keyboard.
Do you remember highscore tables in oldschool game machines for adding your scores? You had to enter your name with game pad. There wasn’t a keybord with characters – only joystick with four (maybe eight?) degrees of freedom and you had to slowly move it to mark right character on the game screen and finally use enter button to accept that letter. Real time keyboard controlled by mind works pretty similar.
1. What is your opinion about the idea of Brain-to-Brain Interface? Do you think that we dispose enough amount of knowledge about our brains and we have methods to do it properly?
ReplyDeleteMentioned technology could improve the quality of life of people who are paralyzed or have severe motor disabilities.
2. Do you think that eventually, Brain-Computer Interfaces would be as accurate and fast, as traditional input devices, such as mouse and keyboard? Or maybe it would be utterly incomparable to them?
Moore’s law is saying that we may doubling of computational power every two years, brought computer hardware and calculating power for the first time in history close to what our brains can do. Yet, calculation power alone is necessary plus using effective algorithms. Every new and extremely powerful technological advance comes with the potential for amazingly good as well as nightmarishly bad results.
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ReplyDelete1. What is your opinion about the idea of Brain-to-Brain Interface?
ReplyDeleteI think it’s a great and on time subject to discuss. Not long ago it was Science-Fiction. concept only, but now we are ahead of it.
I’m mostly excited about this vision, due to facts how much people can gain from this connection. For example, a deaf person got a vest that stimulated parts of the back electrically. Sound was converted to a certain pattern on his back.
It turned out that this person could actually start hearing spoken text after some practice. This mechanism also open door for the prosthetic limbs control.
2. Do you think that we dispose enough amount of knowledge about our brains and we have methods to do it properly?
I think that there is a lot of thing that we don’t know about our brain but I think we are going in good direction. And only by exploring this subject and trying to apply this solution we can understand it more thoroughly. As the saying goes, “If you can’t defeat them, join them.” Neuralink is part of Elon Musk’s plan for the AI to be of the people. That way, we will be safe from it because we are part of it.
3. Do you think that eventually, Brain-Computer Interfaces would be as accurate and fast, as traditional input devices, such as mouse and keyboard? Or maybe it would be utterly incomparable to them?
I think when Brain-Computer Interface will be full capable to work between human and computer it will be the most efficient connection ever known, utterly incomparable to mouse or keyboard. I believe that we will be able to use all of our brain potential translate in a manner that computer can easily use it.
What is the purpose for a healthy person? It seems to me that if similar treatments go to everyday life, then to some extent it will not be "lost personality". Everyone will be able to freely exchange data with the whole world, but it can lead to the creation of an extremely homogeneous global society that does not show significant differences. Right now, during everyday work, we are overloaded with information from the Internet - a few hours' work at the computer requires rest. If there are even more of them, will it be possible to work on a computer in the long run? For sure it would be more efficient, but it is worth remembering to create a mechanism in this type of connections that allows you to completely disconnect from external devices. Each of us likes to just disappear sometimes, do not take this opportunity just to communicate faster?
ReplyDeleteIn a nutshell...I think that mouse and kayboard is enought.
Thank you for interesting issue. You gave us opportunity to think over very serious problem, which most of us consider as potential or future one, but this is a very current, contemporary issue.
ReplyDeleteRecent advances in brain interfacing technologies now allow for direct communication between two individuals' brains. To date there is no legislation regulating informed consent and protecting personal data extracted via BTBIs, either therapeutically or outside of the clinical and research context. Further, no formal protocols are in place for how to conduct research using these technologies, with humans or non-human animals.
In my opinion, in this respect the ethical side of BTBIs analysis is not carefully enough treated.
Ethical discourse around BTBI must keep pace with the advances in technology in order to prepare for possible life-changing implications of BTBI use. We have seen the public uproar and subsequent opposition to technology, as with mammalian cloning with Dolly, when there is a failure to prepare the public for such innovation. In order to best prepare the public to understand the implications of BTBI, ethicists and scientists must work together to ensure that the technology is developed with the highest ethical standards.
The very act of linking two brains together to transfer information raises a variety of ethical and safety concerns. Though born of two approaches, extraction and delivery of information, that are each privy to their own suite of ethical issues, BTBIs are a novel means of information transfer which bypasses the customary sensory means for the brain to apprehend information from another individual. Such a novel approach demands careful consideration, especially as we develop human-to-animal and human-to-human BTBI technologies. There are three categories of concern to be discussed: potential violations of privacy, human enhancement, and agency and identity.
As a result of such analysis we can answer precisely, how the BTBIs will influence our life.
BR,
Marta