Hello,
This week I want to share with you the article I've referred during Bioengineering class (some of you who also attended may be familiar with it). It describes modern and very innovative technique of face prosthetics in case of partial paralysis. In the article you will find description of the, so called, "rodent model" of functional electrical stimulation system, which aims to mimic muscle movement from one side of face and transfer it to another (the paralysed one).
There are several questions that kept coming to my mind when I was reading this article. Some of them I want to ask you:
1. Even though the benefits for a human race are obvious, do you feel discomfort when thinking of animals used in experiments like this?
2. Can we really call the presented solution a model? I've always imagined a "model" as "computer model", or something artificial in a different sense. But a "rodent model"? Doesn't it sound weird?
3. Technology is advancing so fast, especially in the field of brain-prosthesis interfaces. Do you know anybody who needs or uses such technology? If so, what is their opinion?
Ola I present was during your presentation last week. This material was very interesting for me because in my opinion technology and its development should be the tool to help people not to hurt them. According to information about living rats used in this project I don’t have any resistance about it. Humans dominate around the world and can do everything to improve our lives. Of course using animals to medical research should be treated as a final option after computer simulation and theoretical laboratory research. During this research carried out on animals, researchers should remember that animals are living creatures and have feelings. About your second question I reckon that we don’t care about nomenclature. Model is model regardless which or who involved in this. After our last class meeting about Bioengineering issues I learnt new things about trends on this topic. Unfortunately all this new treating methods are not used in Poland in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI may feel discomfort when thinking of animals being used for expertiment and research purposes, but in the end one has to bear in mind that usually there is no other option to try inventions and discoveries in real environment and there is no other way to make progress in the fields related to medicine and bio-engineering. One of my friends is a PhD student of Bio-engineering in Spain and he explained me that they are trying to conducts tests on rather old animals and they do all they can for them not to suffer. As per question no.2 I agree with ZC, the naming convention should be of least importance:). It doesn't matther how it sounds. The most important thing is what it is about. As per question no.3 unfortunately it is true that new and promising treating methods are not used in Poland. If one wants to expand their knowledge in this area, one has to go abroad.
ReplyDeleteHello everyone.
ReplyDeleteAt first I have to admit that I had creeps when reading this article.
1. Even though the benefits for a human race are obvious, do you feel discomfort when thinking of animals used in experiments like this?
Yes. Even when I am aware that it is necessary to use living specimens to experiments.
2. Can we really call the presented solution a model? I've always imagined a "model" as "computer model", or something artificial in a different sense. But a "rodent model"? Doesn't it sound weird?
Yest it is. In my opinion using such terms implies the impersonal treatment. This is a way to make excuse for treat rats as a thing. When you call them names the are loosing their ability to make some feelings.
3. Technology is advancing so fast, especially in the field of brain-prosthesis interfaces. Do you know anybody who needs or uses such technology? If so, what is their opinion?
I am afraid I do knot know anybody with that kind problems.
But I could consider what would I do in any neural system disorder. I would take part in experiments. Maybe one they someone would find a way to reconnect lost nerves.
1. Even though the benefits for a human race are obvious, do you feel discomfort when thinking of animals used in experiments like this?
ReplyDeleteTo be honest I am not one of the believers in PETA and animals protector. For me human race is much more important than animals obviously. Animals used in testing are not endangered species so there is no problem for me. Development of new solutions requires testing and this is just a procedure. I don’t feel any discomfort due to that. I care more about my future and the future of my family, fiends and humans in general.
2. Can we really call the presented solution a model? I've always imagined a "model" as "computer model", or something artificial in a different sense. But a "rodent model"? Doesn't it sound weird?
Well it is hard to say, because in my opinion it is more a specialisation jargon or technical term. It is not me who can say how it should be called. Does the name really matters? Maybe “method” is more accurate, I really do not think it is important.
3. Technology is advancing so fast, especially in the field of brain-prosthesis interfaces. Do you know anybody who needs or uses such technology? If so, what is their opinion?
Well I think that it might be useful for people after stroke or with some diseases they were born with. There is so many health problems, diseases so it is hard to say. Personally I do not know anyone who might need that, but for sure there are people like that. Maybe after some accidents?
Please excuse me but this topic is not in my interesting field.
ReplyDeleteHello Ola, Thanks For this Article,
ReplyDelete1. Even though the benefits for a human race are obvious, do you feel discomfort when thinking of animals used in experiments like this?
Scientists have many dilemmas. For example, without animal experiments, there would be no possible progress in medicine. It is always a difficult topic, but the effects are good for people.
2. Can we really call the presented solution a model? I've always imagined a "model" as "computer model", or something artificial in a different sense. But a "rodent model"? Does not it sound weird?
There are many articles about simulations. We know that every simulation is as good as it was designed. But we can not simulate all. At some stage you have to go one step further.
3. Technology is advancing so fast, especially in the field of brain-prosthesis interfaces. Do you know anybody who needs or uses such technology? If so, what is your opinion? I have heard of people with damaged spinal cord. But I have never explored the topic.
1. Even though the benefits for a human race are obvious, do you feel discomfort when thinking of animals used in experiments like this?
ReplyDeleteI think that we should avoid using animals in experiments unless there is no other option. We should assure to not make harm to them.
2. Can we really call the presented solution a model? I've always imagined a "model" as "computer model", or something artificial in a different sense. But a "rodent model"? Doesn't it sound weird?
For me model is something that represents some pert of real world and makes it easier to understand. The way it is represented, I mean in digital or other form, does not define it is model or not.
3. Technology is advancing so fast, especially in the field of brain-prosthesis interfaces. Do you know anybody who needs or uses such technology? If so, what is their opinion?
I think such people exists i our society and they would benefit a lot from such technologies.
1. Even though the benefits for a human race are obvious, do you feel discomfort when thinking of animals used in experiments like this?
ReplyDeleteGenerally speaking I would say I'm against using animals in experiments but looking on both sides and thinking how many lives it saved it's hard to take a stand here.
2. Can we really call the presented solution a model? I've always imagined a "model" as "computer model", or something artificial in a different sense. But a "rodent model"? Doesn't it sound weird?
I would agree with Cezary and call it rather "method"
3. Technology is advancing so fast, especially in the field of brain-prosthesis interfaces. Do you know anybody who needs or uses such technology? If so, what is their opinion?
I have read about an artist who has implanted a sensor which let him sense a colors (he is color blind). He sense colors as sounds and after one year he is trying to describe how the extension of his senses is letting him feel or perceive more from real world. There was an example of his cat staring at something and when this guy look at this point he noticed his cat is staring at the infrared radiation spot - something we as humans are not able to perceive without additional tools.
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ReplyDeleteYes, I feel discomfort in such case, because instead of such experiments, people could think about another solution. For example: creating artificial rodent? Then one can build rodent model, with artificial animal.
In my opinion human should not harm other living creatures, practically at all. Of course there a lot of functions - like transport – when animals used to be and they still are very helpful. But even then, they should be respected and using them should be careful, limited when they become weak or old. The animals are a part of our ecosystem and there a lot of cases, when we can learn more from them than they could learn from us. The rules they respect in their world is the nature rules, sometimes strict, but always it is regulated internally between them. I mean if we are not able to have impact on the results, let’s leave them alone, instead of interfaring, disturbing and using with no limits as it often happens.
Explaining such point of view with logic arguments is very difficult, I just think and feel like this. I don’t like eating meat practically since my birth and I feel weird even when I have to kill a mosquito. This conviction of not harming living creatures is simply a part of my DNA code.
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Indeed, it sounds weird. Model is a kind of simulation, framework, imitation – all correspond to subjects and shall not relate to living creatures. In case of “artificial rodent” mentioned in point 1 above, it would be more precise and adequate to use a word “model”.
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Unfortunately, I don’t know anybody using such technology. But I can imagine people in need, after some kind of accidents or with genetic problems – they probably would do anything to make their lives better. And I don’t judge them for that, I suppose this is normal attitude. I would rather motivate the scientists to work on projects not using living animals, simply to avoid practical development of such ideas in the future. Using solutions with creatures should be stopped in the beginning of research process. Then we won’t have ethical problems with implementing the results in our lives. Let’s concentrate on “artificial” models.
1. Even though the benefits for a human race are obvious, do you feel discomfort when thinking of animals used in experiments like this?
ReplyDeleteSadly, no. It's better to use animals than humans. Of course this is my point of view.
2. Can we really call the presented solution a model? I've always imagined a "model" as "computer model", or something artificial in a different sense. But a "rodent model"? Doesn't it sound weird?
Why do you think it's weird? Computers are widely used for 20 years or so. If you imagine model as a computer model you quite young :p
3. Technology is advancing so fast, especially in the field of brain-prosthesis interfaces. Do you know anybody who needs or uses such technology? If so, what is their opinion?
I've no idea. I never had an opportunity to dig deeper into this topic. It's something new for me and very far from my interest.
Hi Ola!
ReplyDeleteI've seen your presentation at Bioengineering class and it was very interesting. Thanks for sharing the article also.
1. Even though the benefits for a human race are obvious, do you feel discomfort when thinking of animals used in experiments like this?
I think that every person, that has even a little of compassion, feels discomfort when thinks about animals used for experiments. I always have mixed feeling about this subject. On the one hand I cannot accept that animals suffer for science, on the other it can bring many benefits for human health (and sometimes for other animals health also, looking how advanced veterinary medicine is). In my opinion, scientists should do everything what is possible to not harm animals, which means to avoid using animals in an experiment if it is not absolutely necessary, and use painkillers and anesthesia for the animals used for experiments.
2. Can we really call the presented solution a model? I've always imagined a "model" as "computer model", or something artificial in a different sense. But a "rodent model"? Doesn't it sound weird?
I agree. "Model" sounds for me like something artificial, like computer model or building model. I think that the phrase "rodent model" is used to make scientific language more formal and emotionless.
3. Technology is advancing so fast, especially in the field of brain-prosthesis interfaces. Do you know anybody who needs or uses such technology? If so, what is their opinion?
I don't know anybody who uses such technology, but I can imagine how it can improve the quality of life for sick person.
1. Even though the benefits for a human race are obvious, do you feel discomfort when thinking of animals used in experiments like this?
ReplyDeleteIn my point of view it is a normal order of things. Science often uses animals in research so it is nothing new for me. Moreover in “Ethic statements” there is written that study was carried out in accordance with the recommendations of the National Institutes of Health guidelines on the use of animals. The protocol was approved by the University of Pennsylvania Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee. So I have no objections.
2. Can we really call the presented solution a model? I've always imagined a "model" as "computer model", or something artificial in a different sense. But a "rodent model"? Doesn't it sound weird?
Just a little bit… However, it is still a scientific model. On the other hand I know what you mean and I have similar feelings. Therefore how does it sound: a “human model”? :)
3. Technology is advancing so fast, especially in the field of brain-prosthesis interfaces. Do you know anybody who needs or uses such technology? If so, what is their opinion?
I don’t know such people but I think that those who are sick with Parkinson`s disease need this technology. The effects are surprising – after implanting the electrodes into their brains they can move without any problems. The basic task of this interface is to correct misdirected information transmitted between neurons.
Hello,
ReplyDelete1. Even though the benefits for a human race are obvious, do you feel discomfort when thinking of animals used in experiments like this?
This is very hard question because each site of this discussion have very good arguments. But the way I think that we should use animals for this kind of activities if their goal is to save human lives and health. Otherwise we can not make step forward in healthcare. Nevertheless animals involved in this experiment should have ensured conditions of life as similar as possible to their natural/wild environment.
2. Can we really call the presented solution a model? I've always imagined a "model" as "computer model", or something artificial in a different sense. But a "rodent model"? Doesn't it sound weird?
I think it does not. Models have different levels of accuracy, so we can find a lot of let’s say items called model. We can use other terms like for instance method as Cezary wrote but does it change anything? It is general term in this field of science and the most important is clear and common language.
3. Technology is advancing so fast, especially in the field of brain-prosthesis interfaces. Do you know anybody who needs or uses such technology? If so, what is their opinion?
No, and I think I can be happy for that. Most of people that needs this kind of technology have serious ailments. It is important to use technology in order to help treating illnesses, or limit their effects.
1. Even though the benefits for a human race are obvious, do you feel discomfort when thinking of animals used in experiments like this?
ReplyDeleteSometimes we do not have another choice. Form the selfish point of view I prefere to have animals taking parts in experiments then peoples.
2. Can we really call the presented solution a model? I've always imagined a "model" as "computer model", or something artificial in a different sense. But a "rodent model"? Doesn't it sound weird?
I think that there are a lot of people who uses words in order to sound more "professional". In my opinion "rodent model" is such case.
3. Technology is advancing so fast, especially in the field of brain-prosthesis interfaces. Do you know anybody who needs or uses such technology? If so, what is their opinion?
There are a lot of peoples who urgently need those. Unfortunately I do not know any one in particular.
Thank you for the interesting article. I feel uncomfortable when I think about experimenting with animals, but I feel more discomfort as I thought about not experimenting with animals.
ReplyDeleteEach method should be thoroughly tested using different simulations. If scientists say that it is high safety then it should be tested on animals. The success of these tests should open the way for use in humans.
Regarding the second question - I take this formulation as a corporate slang.
I personally do not know people with such needs, however, it is easy to see such people. Unfortunately there are many barriers, from financial to mental ...
Thanks for great article.
ReplyDeleteI do not have much expertise in presented subject.
I do not feel uncomfortable, some theologies should be tested before going to the market and sometimes testing on animals is only possible way.
As for third question unfortunately I do not know anybody with such needs.