The question seems provocative, taking into account the fact that is directed at researchers in this the field of science. But I sincerely hope that this is exactly the right place where I can get, not only answers, but also valuable suggestions and inspirations.
By nearly twenty years I'm intrigued by the question of: What is the "Informations". Of course, I'm interested in the scientific sense, as for physicists may be is interesting: What is the „Energy”. Unfortunately, despite so many years, I found only many partial answers, but even all together they are not satisfactory. Worse, I feel that increasingly difficult I grasp the essence of the "Informations".
Somewhere in the early nineties I read famous book "The thing about essence computing – Algorithmics” written by David Harel. Then briefly I had a fine fettle that I know what I do. Unfortunately, very soon, doubts have arisen such as:
- Maybe not "Algorithmics" but is data structures are the essence of "Informations".
- Natural Human language and derivative languages (for example programming languages) are the true essence.
- It is difficult to talk about the essence of computer science without considering all of its major operating functions: processing, memorizing, control process, communication process.
Since then the concept of "Informations" is explored, quite a good article on the current knowledge can be found here: Semantic Conceptions of Information (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/information-semantic/). The article is quite extensive, so I will not write more on the topic so we move to the questions. I do not expect that everyone answers to all these questions. Let everyone will choose the ones that suit him.
1. Is the classic the "Information Theory" (Claude E. Shannon) sufficient to describe the concept of "Informations"? What is the value in this context the "Qualitative Information Theory" (Marian Mazur)?
2. Range the Informatics as science covers only information that occurs in artificial systems (computers)?
3. Is the scope of Informatics is any information that may appear in the universe? Are states and processes that occur within us (in the human mind and the human brain) in scope this science?
4. If human language is instrument for each of thought process, about most a complex structure (the context grammar) and has the greatest power of expression. It is human language the ultimate goal of computer science and the essence of "Informations”?
5. What are relationships between concepts "Informations", "Languages" and the concept of "Truth" (of course the term "Truth" is understood scientifically, as in mathematical logic)?
6. If "Word" is synonymous with "Informations" whether all the answers these questions and the accompanying article are stuck in this brief content:
“ 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. … ”
These are hard and difficult questions. If I was supposed to pick a one question, I would choose this one: Range the Informatics as science covers only information that occurs in artificial systems (computers)? In my opinion the Informatics doesn’t cover only artificial systems. For me, Informatics means everything connected with information and a need to manage information. It doesn’t always mean usage of computers. The computers nearly always help us to manage it but it is not always the case. When you sketch a diagram or organize information (even manually) you perform Informatics..... Would you agree with it? I am asking because its an extreme example :)
ReplyDeleteI agree that Informatics can't limited only to data processing in computers. But I see the problem caused the other extreme. Whether Informatics as science is about all, is it meta-science?
DeleteFor your questions, I am not able to answer in English, I have too little knowledge.
ReplyDeleteI think that the essence of the information lies at a lower level, at the level of physics and not logic. When we ask the question: what is life? And to answer is the creation of new life. It is the answer to you question about life.
I think that we exaggerate words, we talk too much and do, too little.
I also have long been wondering what is the answer on question: What is more primary, the energy (physics) whether the informations?
DeleteSimilarly to Mariusz I will choose only one question. I feel that the forth one is for me:-)
ReplyDeleteI suppose that the human language is an instrument for expressing each thought process. However using that language for expressing some processes is extremely difficult. The main goal for expressing thoughts seems to be a willingness for passing them to other people. Let assume there is only one language in the world thus there is no problem with translation. When we want to express some complex mathematical ideas, using mathematical symbols is easier than using the natural language. In my opinion the cause is that singular mathematical symbol describe quite a complicated things in a compact way. Generalizing, it is a cause why people creates so many “artificial” languages despite the existence of the natural one.
I do not think that the human language is an ultimate goal for computer science. It is too complicated in some way: it contains synonyms, a different ways for expressing the same things. The natural language is still evolving which seems to be a proof of its inadequacy. I thing that creation of natural language could be a challenge for scientist, but it should not be the goal.
According to me the language of mathematics is more precise and more concise than natural language, but has less force to express something. Some thoughts can’t write in the form of mathematical symbols, but each formula described mathematically can be natural language. But are you sure, if the language of mathematics is a concise, is its use is easier?
DeleteAs I have understood you asked me about using the language of mathematics comparing to the natural one.
DeleteI think that people do not need such conciseness in most cases thus it cannot be a cause. Additionally the natural language is not only used for expressing facts, but also for expressing feelings. I cannot imagine writing lyrics or poetry in the mathematical language (despite fact that i.e. the number 2 can be expressed in the infinite number of ways). Thus I do not thing that mathematical language would be easier to use in normal life. Its using is easier in the area of mathematics. Additionally at that moment I would like to remember that it does not require translation like natural languages. It may be a cause why artificial languages sometimes are so fine.
I like the 6th question so this is the one I will try to give an answer for.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the answer lies in the continuation:
"... 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it."
I think that information has importance only for the living being (us humans). The universe doesn't need information in order to function. We however need it to give it meaning and try to understand how and why.
It is essential for us to create methods of understanding and spreading information, that's why informatics are crucial. Without it we wouldn't understand anything that is related to other sciences.
What you wrote is very interesting for me. My thinks are very similar: The informations can be human needs to create make sense of the universe. But what of our individual meaning and purpose of life?
DeleteI'll try to answer each of your questions:
ReplyDelete1. The linked article is way over my head. I'm surprised mere words aren't enough to express philosophical thoughts and we need to resort to mathematical formulas.
2. We definitely rely on computers to process information most of the time, but theoretical IT is also possible.
3. As soon as we start talking about simulating these things, they become the scope of IT. So there are no such limits between what is a natural process and what is an abstract process.
4. No, I wouldn't say that. Our language, although it is expressive, can't match specialized protocols with their speed and efficiency of transmitting information. It is also too rooted in our physiology to be the ultimate goal.
5. Information is just data, it is neither true, nor false - it is, what it is (a fact). A language encodes information. If the encoded meaning matches the data that it encodes - then we have truth, if it doesn't - then we have a misrepresentation of facts. Or at least it would be that simple, if our language was perfectly precise, but it's not, so we have to deal with half-truths and limits of our understanding.
6. We don't necessarily need words to deal with information, just think about music, or a picture. So information is not synonymous with words as far as I know.
I must say, this is all highly complicated - if not to say convoluted - , difficult to understand and deeply engrossed into semantics. Semantics which can be highly debatable even for those "in the known" - and largely incomprehensible for others.
ReplyDeleteAlso, no offense meant, but some of those questions are difficult to understand. I'm not sure if there are some spelling mistakes there or it's my lack of knowledge, but it's almost guesswork at their meaning at times.
I'll just stick to queston #3:
Assuming that Informatics covers all informations, functioning of our brain is also included in the concept. Informations cover all sort of data, be it visual, sound, smell or any other kinds that are not so easy to define. Our entire lives are based on processing these informations and reacting to them in various ways.
Of course, including all of that under a single concept makes it incredibly vast and as such it might be debatable if it's the correct thing to do. It's also problematic when we try to represent everything as hard data and ignore other areas like psychology which affect the outcome significantly.
Still, in the end, it's just a word, and it's definition may very well change in the future, giving this question a more defnite answer.
"Still, in the end, it's just a word, and it's definition may very well change in the future, giving this question a more defnite answer."
DeleteSpoken like a true philosopher ;)
believe that statement nr 1 is best describing the concept of the science of Information. The classical Shannon theory of Information has very solid base coming from physics and the theory of communication. It give very precise meaning to the definition of what the information is, how it can be measured and how does it flow in the Universe, regardless of the media or context. It may be equally well used in the artificial languages processing, algorithmic, cryptography, bioinformatics or brain modelling. It captures exactly the essence of entire scope of studies of what you call "Informatics" - actual correct name is The Theory of Information Processing :)
ReplyDeleteI'm very sorry but it's already 23:45 and I can't study your topic because I go to sleep.
ReplyDeleteToday were four topics on our blog, but I don't understand why because should be only two. Please look into Margaret topic and forgive me.
http://konwersatorium2-ms-pjwstk.blogspot.com/2014/03/summer-semester-201314.html
I will try to answer question forth
ReplyDeleteI don't think that goal of computer science is use humane language because that language is to complicated and what is more in human language that same sentences can have different meanings depending on the context, and in informatics everything need to be clear and simple. We try to use human language to describe some problems and solution for which we design systems but we use it only for description and this is ok because this help everyone to understood problem and solution but this language isn't good for describe in simply way mathematical problem and for sure that language isn't good for implementation that why I do not think that the human language is an ultimate goal for computer science
The scope of research information is very wide. Computer is a very large field
ReplyDeleteof study. I agree with the fact that the word science is hidden a lot of
information. We know that information is the whole world. Appears to be very
much the concept of the word Informatics. It's hard to specify one accurate
statement specifying field of computer science. I think this statement Shanon
is the best and most hit. In this determination is based on the entire
computer.