It might seem that our way of celebrating looks as if all would be sad. It’s not. I think it’s because of the history of our nation. It is not that easy to perform wild celebration while thinking about all those lives lost in freedom regaining fights. I prefer to treat this days in serious context not in mad parties one.
On the other hand I believe that taking things seriously does not always mean sad. Regarding other countries national celebrations, it all depends on what serves as a root cause for one. Apart from that there is a vast amount of other factors that can influence the way people celebrate.
I agree with this what Waldemar wrote above. I think that young people don't celebrate many national public holidays like olders. They see this days like free days (don't have to go to work or school) so why they need to waste this time to celebrate something?
You might call me just as you like it but because I work very hard I am very happy to have free day and i want to spent this time with family or read something.
BTW We are not sad country, we know how to celebrate.
Great observations by the presenter. More often than not, November is a gloomy, cold month, so cheerful parades and barbeques are out of the question. Different story in May, when people even take extra days off work to go on a "majówka", then we really celebrate!
Looking at the news headlines today, you'll find many grandiose political statements from the government, opposition, Church leaders and whoever gets a hold of a microphone on TV. It shouldn't surprise anyone who knows Poland and especially the history of Poland. Preserving Polish identity used to be a crime with dire consequences not long ago and throughout history. It's easy to say this belongs to the past and we're free now, but tradition builds up slowly. And we're building on a tradition of celebrating tragic uprisings and conservative Catholic religious holidays. It will take time to change and the change will come from people free of the nostalgia and blissfully ignorant, as those being ridiculed for their lack of historical knowledge in one of the linked videos.
I have to agree that the poles do not celebrate these days with happiness. I think that is because we are a nation of fighters and for fighters important is a strong sense of victory. We celebrate constitution day keeping in mind that we live in a country where the law and jurisdical system is at rather at the low level. On the other hand we celebrate anniversary of Poland's resumption of independent in 1918 after 123 years, having in mind that we was able to maintain it only for 20 years and then when we finally get it back in 1989 we have great difficulties in behaving as an independent state. I have to admit that we need to learn how to celebrate and be more optimistic but we also need to finally grow up and stop to allow our politics to behave in such immature way.
Unfortunately, for the last few years, Independence Day has become a highly political event that does more to divide than unite. Many different manifestations, with the involved parties ignoring one another (or worse), thinly veiled insults at political opponents. Sometimes there's even agressive behaviour, including property damage.
This year was no different, with the attack on Russian embassy causing a diplomatic incident that didn't really benefit anyone.
I'm not really familiar with other countries Independence Day, but after reading that article, it does feel like they are more happy during the celebrations. On the other hand, our history is rather tumultuous and our democracy is very young in comparison. We have only truly united against a common enemy and without one, we are rather lost at times.
Despite all that, my opinion about the Independence Day is positive. Disruptive behaviour comes from the minority, with the vast majority of people wanting to celebrate and show their patriotism.
In Poland most of young people don't celebrate Independence Day they treat that day like free day I think that is because they borne in free country they don't know how it was in the past. Most of other people aren't celebrate that day because of our mentality which is that we like to complain and we always find reason to complain. Hopefully there are also people which are happy in that day and celebrate and that group of people are becoming more and more numerous. So there is hope for us :)
I think that saying that young people (like me ;-) don't celebrate 11.11 because they born in a free country is a too big simplification. I suppose that the same situation occurs in another countries.
In my opinion we still have had our national days too short (from 1989-1990) for developing way for their celebration.
I agree with your thesis about complaining but I won't continue this thread because I don't want to complain about complaining :-).
Independence Day sounds proudly. But during reading the presentation about it, the way of how Poland celebrates its Independence Day clearly distinguish from the other countries. We are very serious – with no smiles on our faces. I don’t really know why such impression comes from us but I could observe another thing. Some young people in such days behave like in any other country. Fighting and disorder have become fit into the Polish image. I think this is because hooligans also realize that our country has little to offer so they want to be visible and distinguishable among others. They could manage to do so during the last Independence Day – there was nothing else in TV besides information how Polish Independence Day looks like. Moreover, our country has allowed to bring about fights and disorders into the streets. Politicians has become having their business at our Independence Day’s expense.
I want to say I don’t understand this but I feel that it should be totally opposite. We have a reasons for celebrate Independence Day joyfully. But our attitude towards different things and events (which are very similar in other countries) should be changed.
I think that apart from being a serious and proud nation also time has a big influence on a way of celebrating 11.11. After a beginning of November many of us switch into "nostalgic winter mode". Additionally November days are rather cold and short for long celebration. In my opinion we celebrate the 3 May more happy.
I agree (at least partially) with your opinion about politicians. They shouldn't expect our common celebration of national days until they celebrate them separately.
When I've placed my first reply to that post the actual celebration was about to happen. I did not expect that it will end up with hooliganism and vandalism. It is sad. The police should have acted more promptly against certain individuals as general Roman Polko stated: http://tiny.cc/tlyo6w
I also did not expect what was about to happen when I wrote my comment. Our way of celebrating independence day is indeed special and not in a good way. I blame the news channels for giving too much air time to this spectacle and making it the main news event of the day. Whatever the political cause of the protesters is, such demonstrations do not make me support it and I don't know anyone who would think differently.
In my opinion it is sad that such situation repeats year by year. It shows that the adage "Pole wise after the fact" is a myth. We probably can't teach ourselves on our mistakes.
In this context I can't say what is better: taking a part in 11.11 afternoon manifestation or sitting before TV with beer and watching a historical program.
That is a very interesting topic, especially in view of the recent events that had place in Warsaw. I personally believe that most of the people in Poland are proud of living in this country and have a sense of patriotism that they would like to display. Moreover, I believe that we can and would like to celebrate these days in a more active, fun and enjoyable way.
The main problem is that there is a large group of people that perceive patriotism in a very distorted way. They include their prejudices against other races and nationalities (blacks and Jews are usually the main focus) as part of being a true patriot and that "others" are our national enemies that need to be fought in any possible way. I find roots of such thinking partially in the history of our country and also in the frustrations that people have due to unemployment and lack of education. As a result, this group of people uses parades as a way to display their anger and opposition against the reality in which they live. Unfortunately, due to actions of such people (and also very exaggerated video material shown by the media) "normal" people are becoming more and more afraid to participate in such celebrations.
In addition to this, politics try to make use of such days and organize marches that further divide people into groups that are connected to a specific party. Wouldn't it be better if we had just one march?
I would love to see a day when the whole nation would celebrate any national day with fun, laughter and joy.
Poles don't celebrate the Independence day like other nation due to the totally different mentality. We are not really happy people like Americans for example. We are always complaining, can't enjoy small things and we are generally to serious. In addition past few days have shown that we don't really feel the need to celebrate but rather seek for an excuse for aggressive behavior.
I like it very much when on many our national holidays there are military parades. I like looking at soldires marching. The whole idea of Independence Day or Constitution Day is, in general, very good thing, but I would expect to have more information about why these days are celebrated. I don't need that knowledge (since I believe I know more less what is it about), but it would be good to utilize such day to increase knowledge of society.
About our mood on those celebrations. I think its not our custom to "have fun" on national days since we believe it's "big" and "important" thing, so we should be serious.
I've been in US on Independece Day. In one word it's a peoples holiday! People are celebrating (many of them not excactly knowing why:) and people are having fun. In Poland I have an impression that the Country in celebrating but not the society/people.
I guess we need to learn that it's OUR (peoples) holiday!
In my opinion the Constitution Day is a little artificial celebration. What is a real cause for celebrating this day? Should we really celebrate a first agreement among our and Lithuanian nation after a few hundred years of arguments? I can't imagine celebrating this day in a really funny way because we should remember what happened later.
I am very glad that we remember and celebrate Independence Day and other national holidays. It is the memory of the people who fought for independence. We should honor the memory of the soldiers and people fighting against. We can not treat this holiday as they are over politicians. You can not divide people. We should not treat national marches for showing strength and fighting with police. Young people do not celebrate because it is taught anger to another person and it is thanks to the media. We know the value of a national holiday because it is the value of the Polish.
... You all know how we celebrate our Independence Day and Constitution Day. What do you think about other nation’s celebrations? What do you think about the whole idea of Independence Day or any national day?
I don't now much but I learn few things about Canada. Canada was not independent country until 1986 believe it or not. At least formally independent. Even though the country was the established over 200 year earlier and for last 100 years acted as completely independent state, Canada was formally a British dominion with current English monarch as a titular head of state. It took Prime Minister Pierre Trudou to go to England to end this. He successfully persuaded Queen Elisabeth and the British Parlament to give back the original Canadian Constitution presented to British Crown 150 years earlier for recognition. Then he returned to Canada bringing back with him the real Constitution and formal recognition of Canada as an independent state. This happened on October 27, 1982 and since then Canada day is celebrated on July 1 in the recognition of original North American Act, known as Constitution. created on July 1, 1867.
I think that idea of national day is very good and a patriotic one. It helps to preserve in population memory some important historical events. It is also a good opportunity to have happy holiday :) and teach our children some history.
It might seem that our way of celebrating looks as if all would be sad. It’s not.
ReplyDeleteI think it’s because of the history of our nation. It is not that easy to perform wild celebration while thinking about all those lives lost in freedom regaining fights.
I prefer to treat this days in serious context not in mad parties one.
On the other hand I believe that taking things seriously does not always mean sad.
Regarding other countries national celebrations, it all depends on what serves as a root cause for one. Apart from that there is a vast amount of other factors that can influence the way people celebrate.
I agree with this what Waldemar wrote above. I think that young people don't celebrate many national public holidays like olders. They see this days like free days (don't have to go to work or school) so why they need to waste this time to celebrate something?
ReplyDeleteYou might call me just as you like it but because I work very hard I am very happy to have free day and i want to spent this time with family or read something.
BTW We are not sad country, we know how to celebrate.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGreat observations by the presenter. More often than not, November is a gloomy, cold month, so cheerful parades and barbeques are out of the question. Different story in May, when people even take extra days off work to go on a "majówka", then we really celebrate!
ReplyDeleteLooking at the news headlines today, you'll find many grandiose political statements from the government, opposition, Church leaders and whoever gets a hold of a microphone on TV. It shouldn't surprise anyone who knows Poland and especially the history of Poland. Preserving Polish identity used to be a crime with dire consequences not long ago and throughout history. It's easy to say this belongs to the past and we're free now, but tradition builds up slowly. And we're building on a tradition of celebrating tragic uprisings and conservative Catholic religious holidays. It will take time to change and the change will come from people free of the nostalgia and blissfully ignorant, as those being ridiculed for their lack of historical knowledge in one of the linked videos.
I have to agree that the poles do not celebrate these days with happiness. I think that is because we are a nation of fighters and for fighters important is a strong sense of victory. We celebrate constitution day keeping in mind that we live in a country where the law and jurisdical system is at rather at the low level. On the other hand we celebrate anniversary of Poland's resumption of independent in 1918 after 123 years, having in mind that we was able to maintain it only for 20 years and then when we finally get it back in 1989 we have great difficulties in behaving as an independent state. I have to admit that we need to learn how to celebrate and be more optimistic but we also need to finally grow up and stop to allow our politics to behave in such immature way.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, for the last few years, Independence Day has become a highly political event that does more to divide than unite. Many different manifestations, with the involved parties ignoring one another (or worse), thinly veiled insults at political opponents. Sometimes there's even agressive behaviour, including property damage.
ReplyDeleteThis year was no different, with the attack on Russian embassy causing a diplomatic incident that didn't really benefit anyone.
I'm not really familiar with other countries Independence Day, but after reading that article, it does feel like they are more happy during the celebrations. On the other hand, our history is rather tumultuous and our democracy is very young in comparison. We have only truly united against a common enemy and without one, we are rather lost at times.
Despite all that, my opinion about the Independence Day is positive. Disruptive behaviour comes from the minority, with the vast majority of people wanting to celebrate and show their patriotism.
In Poland most of young people don't celebrate Independence Day they treat that day like free day I think that is because they borne in free country they don't know how it was in the past. Most of other people aren't celebrate that day because of our mentality which is that we like to complain and we always find reason to complain.
ReplyDeleteHopefully there are also people which are happy in that day and celebrate and that group of people are becoming more and more numerous. So there is hope for us :)
I think that saying that young people (like me ;-) don't celebrate 11.11 because they born in a free country is a too big simplification. I suppose that the same situation occurs in another countries.
DeleteIn my opinion we still have had our national days too short (from 1989-1990) for developing way for their celebration.
I agree with your thesis about complaining but I won't continue this thread because I don't want to complain about complaining :-).
Independence Day sounds proudly. But during reading the presentation about it, the way of how Poland celebrates its Independence Day clearly distinguish from the other countries. We are very serious – with no smiles on our faces. I don’t really know why such impression comes from us but I could observe another thing. Some young people in such days behave like in any other country. Fighting and disorder have become fit into the Polish image. I think this is because hooligans also realize that our country has little to offer so they want to be visible and distinguishable among others. They could manage to do so during the last Independence Day – there was nothing else in TV besides information how Polish Independence Day looks like. Moreover, our country has allowed to bring about fights and disorders into the streets. Politicians has become having their business at our Independence Day’s expense.
ReplyDeleteI want to say I don’t understand this but I feel that it should be totally opposite. We have a reasons for celebrate Independence Day joyfully. But our attitude towards different things and events (which are very similar in other countries) should be changed.
I think that apart from being a serious and proud nation also time has a big influence on a way of celebrating 11.11. After a beginning of November many of us switch into "nostalgic winter mode". Additionally November days are rather cold and short for long celebration. In my opinion we celebrate the 3 May more happy.
DeleteI agree (at least partially) with your opinion about politicians. They shouldn't expect our common celebration of national days until they celebrate them separately.
When I've placed my first reply to that post the actual celebration was about to happen.
ReplyDeleteI did not expect that it will end up with hooliganism and vandalism.
It is sad.
The police should have acted more promptly against certain individuals as general Roman Polko stated:
http://tiny.cc/tlyo6w
I also did not expect what was about to happen when I wrote my comment. Our way of celebrating independence day is indeed special and not in a good way. I blame the news channels for giving too much air time to this spectacle and making it the main news event of the day. Whatever the political cause of the protesters is, such demonstrations do not make me support it and I don't know anyone who would think differently.
DeleteIn my opinion it is sad that such situation repeats year by year. It shows that the adage "Pole wise after the fact" is a myth. We probably can't teach ourselves on our mistakes.
DeleteIn this context I can't say what is better: taking a part in 11.11 afternoon manifestation or sitting before TV with beer and watching a historical program.
That is a very interesting topic, especially in view of the recent events that had place in Warsaw. I personally believe that most of the people in Poland are proud of living in this country and have a sense of patriotism that they would like to display. Moreover, I believe that we can and would like to celebrate these days in a more active, fun and enjoyable way.
ReplyDeleteThe main problem is that there is a large group of people that perceive patriotism in a very distorted way. They include their prejudices against other races and nationalities (blacks and Jews are usually the main focus) as part of being a true patriot and that "others" are our national enemies that need to be fought in any possible way. I find roots of such thinking partially in the history of our country and also in the frustrations that people have due to unemployment and lack of education. As a result, this group of people uses parades as a way to display their anger and opposition against the reality in which they live. Unfortunately, due to actions of such people (and also very exaggerated video material shown by the media) "normal" people are becoming more and more afraid to participate in such celebrations.
In addition to this, politics try to make use of such days and organize marches that further divide people into groups that are connected to a specific party. Wouldn't it be better if we had just one march?
I would love to see a day when the whole nation would celebrate any national day with fun, laughter and joy.
ReplyDeletePoles don't celebrate the Independence day like other nation due to the totally different mentality. We are not really happy people like Americans for example. We are always complaining, can't enjoy small things and we are generally to serious.
In addition past few days have shown that we don't really feel the need to celebrate but rather seek for an excuse for aggressive behavior.
I like it very much when on many our national holidays there are military parades. I like looking at soldires marching. The whole idea of Independence Day or Constitution Day is, in general, very good thing, but I would expect to have more information about why these days are celebrated. I don't need that knowledge (since I believe I know more less what is it about), but it would be good to utilize such day to increase knowledge of society.
ReplyDeleteAbout our mood on those celebrations. I think its not our custom to "have fun" on national days since we believe it's "big" and "important" thing, so we should be serious.
I've been in US on Independece Day. In one word it's a peoples holiday! People are celebrating (many of them not excactly knowing why:) and people are having fun. In Poland I have an impression that the Country in celebrating but not the society/people.
I guess we need to learn that it's OUR (peoples) holiday!
In my opinion the Constitution Day is a little artificial celebration. What is a real cause for celebrating this day? Should we really celebrate a first agreement among our and Lithuanian nation after a few hundred years of arguments? I can't imagine celebrating this day in a really funny way because we should remember what happened later.
DeleteI am very glad that we remember and celebrate Independence Day and other national holidays. It is the memory of the people who fought for independence. We should honor the memory of the soldiers and people fighting against.
ReplyDeleteWe can not treat this holiday as they are over politicians. You can not divide people. We should not treat national marches for showing strength and fighting with police.
Young people do not celebrate because it is taught anger to another person and it is thanks to the media.
We know the value of a national holiday because it is the value of the Polish.
... You all know how we celebrate our Independence Day and Constitution Day. What do you think about other nation’s celebrations?
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think about the whole idea of Independence Day or any national day?
I don't now much but I learn few things about Canada.
Canada was not independent country until 1986 believe it or not. At least formally independent. Even though the country was the established over 200 year earlier and for last 100 years acted as completely independent state, Canada was formally a British dominion with current English monarch as a titular head of state. It took Prime Minister Pierre Trudou to go to England to end this. He successfully persuaded Queen Elisabeth and the British Parlament to give back the original Canadian Constitution presented to British Crown 150 years earlier for recognition. Then he returned to Canada bringing back with him the real Constitution and formal recognition of Canada as an independent state. This happened on October 27, 1982 and since then Canada day is celebrated on July 1 in the recognition of original North American Act, known as Constitution. created on July 1, 1867.
I think that idea of national day is very good and a patriotic one. It helps to preserve in population memory some important historical events. It is also a good opportunity to have happy holiday :) and teach our children some history.