This week, I wanted to ask a question that most (if not all) of us crossed at least once.
"Could a Computer Ever be Conscious?"
Reading: http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/1997_08_18_usnewsworldreport.html
I don't know if this question is ever going to be answered. Reading the document, found the sentence below making more sense in my naively human opinion.
"Our [own] consciousness,
the most obvious thing there is,
may be forever beyond our conceptual grasp." (McGinn, C. 1993. [Problems in philosophy: The limits of
inquiry].)
Some says it's wise to approach consciousness as a partial subject. A machine is capable of sensing (not defining!) 'danger' but not capable of `love` ? How the -heck- it's even viable ?
Questions:
1 - If a computer is ever fully conscious, how would you justify our existence ?
2 - How would you define the limits of a 'robot' not conscious ?
3 - What is your opinion ? Do you see it's coming ?
Special thanks to Łukasz Wilczyński for poking me.
1 - If a computer is ever fully conscious, how would you justify our existence ?
ReplyDeleteI would probably leave it to Isaac Asimov and Philip K. Dick, they seem to be handling this subject very well.
Actually, now that I think about it, Blade Runner took place in 2019. It had flying cars and Rachel… It’s 2015 and one of the most advanced robots is learning how to walk, and the other one is a donkey. I won’t complain about the lack of flying cars, because I think I already did in one of my previous posts.
Anyway, I think we have a lot of catching up to do in the AI and robotics area.
2 - How would you define the limits of a 'robot' not conscious ?
Not dreaming of electric sheep - not conscious. It also has to run away from shotguns and get angry when we mention its mother.
3 - What is your opinion ? Do you see it's coming ?
I really don’t :( not for many, many years. We’re still lacking real AI - we’re happy that we can classify some objects in photos and simulate simple behaviours in computer games. So I guess we’re as close to conscious computers or robots as we are to flying cars.
'Not dreaming of electric sheep'... this made me laughing so hard.
ReplyDelete`So I guess we’re as close to conscious computers or robots as we are to flying cars.`
I'm an active member of Warsaw traffic for some time. It's a total adventure between 4pm and 6pm. Can't imagine all those cars flying around :)
Thanks for the interesting read. And now to answer your questions:
ReplyDelete1 - If a computer is ever fully conscious, how would you justify our existence ?
I understand that whenever you use the term conscious, you mean self-conscious. I'll answer your question with another question. :)
How do you justify the existence of insects and other animals?
There are here to do their part in the ecosystem. I guess a solid purpose of life is just to create the ultimate concious being. Maybe that is a little bit out of the scope but imagine a whole universe being an intelligent supercomputer. However with our current knowledge and understanding of how it works its highly unlikely to ever come to such a situation. There are theories that there is a cycle of life and death of the entire universe (starting with the big bang and ending with the reverse of this process and then exploding again, and so on) meaning that apparently any life formation won't be capable of surviving within those cycles.
2 - How would you define the limits of a 'robot' that is not conscious ?
Basically the limitations of an unconscious robot depend on the implemented features and functions that the developers chose for it. Still a self-concious robot is probably a better problem solver, because it can learn and adapt to situations.
3 - What is your opinion ? Do you see it coming ?
I see it coming but probably not in my lifetime. Basically this will probably occur just before, after or during singularity. If there ever will be another calendar refinement the singularity is a perfect candidate for the new date viable to replace the point at which we count Anno Domini (AD) and Before Christ (BC) years of the Gregorian calendar.
They* are here...
DeleteI wish there was an edit option on this blog. :)
"Basically the limitations of an unconscious robot depend on the implemented features and functions that the developers chose for it."
DeleteCan't they randomize some behaviors ? Sometimes I feel like the consciousness is all about randomized building blocks establishing whoever we are.
"I see it coming but probably not in my lifetime."
Don't know if this is a bad thing or not.
There is this theory in quantum physics that measurement of quantum particles seems to provide totally random results, which means that since everything is created of those tiny particles which can be random, their behavior will be random as well. Consciousness is no different, however on macro-scale I can see filters with thresholds applied to the random results of those consisted elements.
DeleteWith regards to the second statement: ( too bad tag img is not accepted :/ )
http://jovan.ru/pics/bender.gif
1 - If a computer is ever fully conscious, how would you justify our existence ?
ReplyDeleteTrue. If we create conscious robot how we control him? It would start refusing execute human orders. Could people aford such luxury? Maybe when we colonize other planet we could perform such social experiment. I recommend film “Ex Machina” to deepen understand such problem.
2 - How would you define the limits of a 'robot' not conscious ?
I think there are no limits for robots. You can watch Kasparov beaten in chess or Watson wining TV program. But if program consciousness to computers to early then human could began obsolete.
3 - What is your opinion ? Do you see it's coming ?
If it comes to early it would probably be destroyed by humans. In other hand if we program consciousness too late humans destroy themselves.
"It would start refusing to execute human orders."
DeleteReally? Have you never had a computer refuse doing what you want it to do? ;)
OK. :) But it was due to human error, mistake, lack of knowledge etc. But imagine situation if your intention are clear and you can force computer to execute command.
Delete"Really? Have you never had a computer refuse doing what you want it to do? ;)"
DeleteHmmm. Yes and no. i.e. Siri is well known with helping suicidal people to kill themselves.
"If it comes to early it would probably be destroyed by humans. In other hand if we program consciousness too late humans destroy themselves."
DeleteCould you please elaborate this statement ?
Let think for while. How many wars and crimes was committed in history? Does people change? No! All incidents are more sophisticated now. We need some program that could monitor our behavior and react. I feel that such system is implemented. But someday someone will hack this system and we will need different tools to put our world stable.
DeleteBesides how many resources are wasted for hedonistic life for more and more people. If we don't control them properly we could never colonize other planets and we become instinct because of some disaster.
1 - If a computer is ever fully conscious, how would you justify our existence ?
ReplyDeleteCan't we coexist peacefully? Some animals are already said to be at least somewhat conscious. It would be a similar situation.
2 - How would you define the limits of a 'robot' not conscious ?
I don't think the limit has to be very high. We tend to put too much emphasis on consciousness as we know it. Perhaps there can be other forms of consciousness? Or many levels of consciousness. Most of our characteristics have evolved over time from something simple in the beginning. I doubt that consciousness is something that arises suddenly.
3 - What is your opinion ? Do you see it's coming ?
It depends how you define it. If you're looking for consciousness indistinguishable from ours then it might never happen, because we will always be able to tell the difference. At least to the extent that there is something artificial about it. But assuming there is nothing mysterious about consciousness, then it should be possible to program "a consciousness".
BTW Judging by the references that's a pretty old article. I wonder what the author would write today?
"Some animals are already said to be at least somewhat conscious. It would be a similar situation."
DeleteAnimals, plants, and mankind.. We are all part of the same food chain. Don't know if it's a problem but smart robots won't be part of our food chain. Why do they bother with us at all ?
Even if we are not part of the same food chain, we will still have to compete for resources such as energy - is it going to be used to grow food or to power those robots?
Delete1 - If a computer is ever fully conscious, how would you justify our existence ?
ReplyDeleteThanks for a great article and discussion.
Computers are already conscious. What they lack is self-consciousness. That is, they are computer conscious but they don't know that they are computers.
Does a human have consciousness?
Your current consciousness is made up of absorbed data and experiences.
Does a Computer have consciousness?
A computer Absorbs data through a webcam, collects data through the microphone ect.
Does it think or not think?
The microphone will adjust the level of volume, based upon the level of input. Is that via choice? Did it decide to do that? Is it conscious because it changed its settings? A lot of people would say that a person is different from a computer, because they can think.
Well, defining thinking? I could say that the computer is thinking because its taking my voice and adjusting the volume accordingly. Its no different from a human thinking about having chicken tonight instead of pork. Or thinking about going to go pay there bill, or do whatever. Its ultimately just a more complex version of a computer. A program response. Functioning under the specific programs, one has accumulated from there upbringing and society.
"Your current consciousness is made up of absorbed data and experiences."
Delete(generally speaking) Why animals are not conscious then ?
I am not so sure if all animals are not conscious?
Delete2 - How would you define the limits of a 'robot' not conscious ?
ReplyDeleteplease note that, the robot that is conscious or not conscious,it has no limits if it respect the following rules:
- Robots should not be designed as weapons, except for national security reasons.
- Robots should be designed and operated to comply with existing law, including privacy.
- Robots are products: as with other products, they should be designed to be safe and secure.
- Robots are manufactured artefacts: the illusion of emotions and intent should not be used to exploit vulnerable users.
- It should be possible to find out who is responsible for any robot.
"Robots should not be designed as weapons, except for national security reasons."
DeleteGood and bad. We all know the good part. IMHO, I feel also sorry a law enforcement officer is getting hurt during his/her duty. If a robot could serve that purpose, I'm okay with it.
3 - What is your opinion ? Do you see it's coming ?
ReplyDeleteGood question. The AI can already think, to a limited degree (or are you talking about being self aware?). A more pressing question would be should we create AI that can feel. And with Evolving AI would we even have control over whether or not the AI develops feelings, probably not.
But in answer to your question if we created AI that could think and feel on a similar order or higher order than we do what right would we have to subjugate that being?
"if we created AI that could think and feel on a similar order or higher order than we do what right would we have to subjugate that being"
ReplyDeleteIMHO we don't have such a problem is on the way. How can I create something that I don't know what exactly it is ? Let's say I'm going to evolve to a level that I will know everything about myself. Why would I create robot then ? Instead of creating a self conscious robot, I would develop a tool that gives me the high tech abilities. (i.e. unlimited persistent memory ...)
1 - If a computer is ever fully conscious, how would you justify our existence ?
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I can`t imagine that a machine have this unique feature that a human being is only equipped with. To be conscious means that you can feel that you live, think, you can separate fact from fiction, good from evil. We can do it but I am afraid that machines can`t do for a very, very long time. But if they would be conscious the most important question is that they would be able to separate things, feelings like a human being? If not we`d be probably done for and nobody would not have to justify our existence.
2 - How would you define the limits of a 'robot' not conscious?
ReplyDeleteAs far as I am concerned, I think that robots are to help human beings. For me there is no needs for robots to be conscious. I agree with Monem 14 June 2015 at 10:57 point of view. So, answering the question the main limits of a 'robot' is it is created to do a specific objectives not to think about something, feel, give opinions, etc.
3 - What is your opinion ? Do you see it's coming ?
ReplyDeleteFrankly speaking I don`t really know, as it is not my cup of tea. I don`t observe the matters. The term of Artificial Intelligence in computing was and is very popular. There are many problems of AI including for example learning, reasoning, communication, natural language processing. Thousands of people have been are working to make AI better and better so answering the question I think that it is coming. Take a look at:
BRAINA: http://www.brainasoft.com/braina/
MAKO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqdhiWltjcU
1 - If a computer is ever fully conscious, how would you justify our existence ?
ReplyDeleteSri Chinmoy 2003: "Consciousness is the inner spark or inner link in us, the golden link within us that connects our highest and most illumined part with our lowest and most unillumined part.”
So according to Chinmoy consciousness is a very selective flash of our backstage processes that run in different resources. Marvin Minsky describes those resources as sets of structures and processes which are running inside represented by different way of thinking. He also claims that there is selective mechanism that switches between those resources and this way control the way we are thinking. The way of think projects identity, we understand as our thoughts.
But consciousness seems to be only a part of more complex structure, so even we create consciousness, it will contain only a part of our identity. Then it would act differently than a human being and it won’t ever understand how to be a human being. I think there is nothing to justify, it is just another level of our development. Consciousness machine will be another tool of our civilization.
2 - How would you define the limits of a 'robot' not conscious ?
'robot' not conscious – this will be machine which doesn’t contain that manifestation described in previous point.
3 - What is your opinion ? Do you see it's coming ?
I believe that as a civilization we are self conscious. We won’t, ever put ourselves into deep troubles. Thus there is nothing to fear.
I like to endulge myself in these kinds of philosophical thoughts on the sense of our existence . I believe that what we call consciousness is what emerges from creating a higher being from smaller sub-parts, that cooperate together, performing some kind of interrelated functions. If we take apart a human being we will get these subsystems of our body, and subparts of our brain, each responsible for a different task. On a lower lever each part is made of cells, carrying out orders like soldiers, having their specific needs, and even values and organizational culture. Is a cell aware that it is creating a higher being? It probably isn’t, since it sees only its subjective part of the system. But yet this consciousness exists, we know it somehow, as humans, we observe it and hence justify our existence as separate beings.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure whether we are right doing so. Some philosophers claim this feeling of existence is only a dream. For example we can feel somebody’s touch, right? However we actually never really can touch one other – the electrones and protones making up our skin are creating electromagnetic fields that prevent from actual contact. There are many more interesting examples, but answer your questions I would say that I justify my existence because I believe I am made up of smaller entities, which I am not aware of and maybe I am myself a small cel creating something bigger.
The limits of a non-conscious robot could be defined as easily as defining what a horse cart is, as according to a ancient story. If you take away the horse from the horse cart – is it still a horse cart? If you take away the wheels – is it still a horse cart? Then if you take the beam and the other parts – in what moment exactly this horse catr stops being a horse cart? I think it is exactly the same with consciousness of any being.
And yes, I see this proces everywhere, referred to robots, nations, communities, organizations, families …..