http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/mar/26/dwarf-planet-super-earth-solar-system-2012-vp113
The such serious thing has already had its own page on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_VP113
The orbit of the just discovered planet suggests that there probably is an another big planet on the far outer reaches of the solar system (called “Super Earth”).
An another interesting thing seems to be a way which the new planet was discovered. Phil Plait, author of http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/03/26/oort_cloud_revealed_2012_vp113_has_largest_perihelion_distance_known.html claims that discovering new cosmic objects is a matter of time: “Our telescopic eyes are getting better at seeing these incredibly remote objects; our hardware and software better at teasing out their faint signal.”. Did astronomers find that new planet? Or was a whole work done by machines and they “only” confirmed its existence?
I would like to use this discovery to talk about cosmic research.
1. How important are cosmic research for us? What benefits do the give for ordinary people?
2. How many planets does our solar system contain? Do you think that the solar system will ever be researched as well as the Earth is nowadays?
3. Should we spend such big money for cosmic research even if we are able to explore effectively only a small part of universe?
4. When will people be able to travel to different planets? If you had a such possibility, would you like to take a part in such expedition and why?
5. Will future discoveries of new cosmic objects be depended more on astronomer (who are creating a new theories) work or on other engineers (who are creating better hardware and software) work?
1. How important are cosmic research for us? What benefits do they give for ordinary people?
ReplyDeleteI think it is important, we do it because of our natural curiosity, it's exciting to read about new discoveries and imagine what else is out there to discover? So, if nothing else, at least it's entertaining for us ordinary people. Last summer I visited the California Science Center in Los Angeles where the Endeavour space shuttle is on display, there were many attractions there. I also drove all the way to the top of the 4k meter volcano in Hawaii where all the observatories are located. It’s great they made it possible to experience these things.
2. How many planets does our solar system contain? Do you think that the solar system will ever be researched as good as the Earth is nowadays?
I have not heard about this new planet or even two planets, it's amazing we haven't spotted them until now. Robotic missions and probes will help with reaching even the furthest parts of our Solar System. I'm sure we'll also learn more about our own planet when we study the Solar System as a whole.
3. Should we spend such big money for cosmic research even if we are able to explore effectively only a small part of universe?
If you compare it to defence spending, suddenly it's not that much money. The fact that we're finally able to explore anything outside of our planet is quite amazing.
4. When will people be able to travel to different planets? If you had a such possibility, would you like to take a part in such expedition and why?
I don't expect to ever have such a possibility, although I know there are entrepreneurs who want to make it a reality (Elon Musk wants to offer Mars trips in the not so distant future).
5. Will future discoveries of new cosmic objects be depended more on astronomer (who are creating a new theories) work or on other engineers (who are creating better hardware and software) work?
That's a good question, both are required but increasingly we're able to acquire a lot of data with our technology and then the job of the astronomer is to analyze it and see if there are discoveries to be made. So the limiting factor may be our ability to pour through the data.
Very thanks for your reply. Is it possible to see some photos from your journey to California?
DeleteI have mixed feelings about such discoveries. On the one hand, I know it's a step forward for us as we can better understand the surrounding world but at the same time I ask myself the question: "what did we gain from such a discovery?". Even after reading the post and digging a little further on the internet I could not find an answer to this question. To be frank I must say that I'm far from being an expert in this area so maybe I would not fully understand the explanation (if such would be provided) but still it would be nice to see something.
ReplyDeleteAs for the funds related to exploring the universe I also have mixed feelings. There are many other areas of knowledge in which discoveries have a much greater impact on our lives, so an obvious choice would be to invest more money in such studies. On the other hand, looking at the stars may lead to some not so obvious discoveries that could change our lives even more.
So all in all, I must say that I don't have a solid standing on this subject.
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Delete"What did we gain from such a discovery?" is indeed the key question to all that. More than once I hear about some supposedly "groundbreaking" discovery in the news and all I can think is "that's nice, and...?" I'm sure naming an asteroid after yourself is very important to the researchers themselves, but I can't think of anything I personally gain from that.
DeleteAny actual benefits seem to be more of a byproduct than actual goal of such research. Various development made in space vessels can eventually be adapted for everyday's use. However, knowing that a random rock billions kilometers away is actually somewhat bigger than we thought before...
Of course, it is theoretically possible that we will discover an asteroid on a crash course with Earth in several years and then I'll owe my life to such researchers. However, right now, it's merely a Holywood movie scenario.
I also had had a mixed feelings about spending big money for such research before I read a Wiktor's comment - concretely a fragment about spending money for defense.
DeleteAfter some time I noticed that in democracy everybody should decide for what his money are spent. Somebody may want to give them for cosmic research, somebody else may prefer defence contribution.
I think that argument for creating inventions which later improve our life looks similarly for these both disciplines.
Here's a nice infographic, which breaks down the 2014 U.S. budget:
Deletehttp://i.imgur.com/rKbsYFH.png
1. For a typical person, there are next to no benefits. For example, I grew up during the time when Pluto was still considered a planet. Nowadays, it is not. Did anything change for me or anyone else? Not really - to the point that it's even hard for me remember that such change really happened. It would be easy to call it ignorance, but it's more this having no real impact on my everyday's life.
ReplyDeleteVarious discoveries might be considered important and groundbreaking for the scientists, but change very little in our everyday life. Yes, the space race did provide several technologies that eventually made their way into the civilian sector, but this was more about engineering than science. However, for the average person, spending millions of dollars to examine some frozen rock on the other side of galaxy is completely useless.
2. Supposedly eight, though I have seen that number change in my lifetime, so perhaps later on that number will be different once again. Or maybe someone will change the definition of a "planet", hard to say.
Succesfully researching other solar system is just a matter of time, though I think it will take a while. Even from a purely technical standpoint, it takes years of travel merely to reach the target - examining to the same extent as we did with Sol might take decades. And that's not taking into account funding for such project, which might delay it even more.
3. No, we shouldn't. I'm very skeptical of these supposed gains from cosmic research and spending millions of dollars on such things. Short term practical benefits are a one thing, but plenty of such research seems quite pointless to me. Granted, compared to various other areas, such spendings are drop in a bucket, so it's not like cutting them to zero would solve world's hunger or cure cancer.
4. I don't see it happening for quite a while. There are some opportunities for space travel, but they are limited to the extremely rich and rightfully so. The costs are simply prohibitive and plenty of people question such huge spendings without any tangible gains. Something like NASA budget cuts are a constant "threat" - at least to those who consider it as such.
Still, assuming space travel would be a thing and I had the option - I don't think I'd take it. Unless there was a huge technological jump in the next few years, it would still be a new and untested concept - and potentially dangerous. My childhood "romanticism" is long gone and I'm far more practical person nowadays, so I don't think I'd be able to enjoy it in nearly the same way.
5. A combination of both, with the former probably taking the credit most of the time. Or perhaps we will improve our computers to the point where they'll make the discoveries themselves, merely digging through already available data, thus shaming both groups.
I think that number of known planets in our solar system will be changing. I thing that scientists will discover many smaller objects on outer reaches of the solar system. I expect that more of them will be some dwarf planets (I thing that majority of planets are smaller ones). Then probably definition of dwarf planet should be changed for better distinction of cosmic objects.
DeleteI got used to 9 planets I must admit. I'd prefer it remained that way.
DeleteI still have to remind myself it's not nine. I also consider it an example of those supposedly huge discoveries that don't really change much in the long run. Is Pluto a "planet" or not? At what point can it be considered a planet? What's the difference between being a dwarf and not? What if we switch some "required" numbers around - are there suddenly ten planets in our solar system or only five?
DeleteI find it all highly arbitrary and, frankly, confusing - if not outright useless differentiation.
As I understood articles those I had read before putting my blog entry, object is treated as a planet or a dwarf-planet according to its diameter.
DeleteWhy may a discovering of VP113 be important for a such ignorant like me? I did not know anything about the existence of the Oort Cloud. I thought that our solar system is built so that there is the Sun in the middle, a few planets surrounding it and many smaller objects. Nowadays I think that there are many objects in the Oort Cloud. Scientists have discovered Sedna, VP113 and have evidences for existence the Super Earth. It is something different than system which I was taught during my school education.
I suppose that a difference between 5 and 10 planets in solar system would not change too much. But, if our solar system had hundreds of planet we should start to think that being a planet in our solar system would not be an extraordinary thing.
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ReplyDelete1. How important are cosmic research for us? What benefits do the give for ordinary people?
ReplyDeleteI think that cosmic research are important thanks to them we can learn how the universe was created where is our place in universe and what dangers threaten us . Thanks to this research maybe we will find out that we are not alone that there is another civilization that can be more-developed from our and they will help us develop more our civilization . I know that there is also danger that we don't have sure that this civilization will be peaceful towards but I'm rather optimistic then pessimistic.
What is more if we hadn't explored the space then we would still believed that the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth
About benefits for ordinary people thanks to cosmic research nowadays we have Velcro which is used in space suit , new materials which are absorb heat and quickly dissipates heat this material are used in space ships we have solar panels and more and more.
2. How many planets does our solar system contain? Do you think that the solar system will ever be researched as good as the Earth is nowadays?
I don't know how many planets contains our system but for sure sooner or later we will discover all of them it is only mater of time
3. Should we spend such big money for cosmic research even if we are able to explore effectively only a small part of universe?
I think that nowadays we shouldn't spend as such big money for that purpose there are more significant problems where money could help, for example, the fight against diseases or natural disasters or that money could be spent on the fight against hunger and social inequality.
4. When will people be able to travel to different planets? If you had a such possibility, would you like to take a part in such expedition and why?
I don't know I think that traveling to different planet will be possible when we figure out how to increase speed over then light speed or we find a way which help us fall asleep during the flight(find a way to hibernate)
5. Will future discoveries of new cosmic objects be depended more on astronomer (who are creating a new theories) work or on other engineers (who are creating better hardware and software) work?
I think that combination of both because astronomer won't do anything without technology and also even best technology is useless if it doesn't use it by a good scientist
Thank you for your comment. Its initial part about purposes of cosmic research made a big impression on me. Also an idea about hibernation during long cosmic travels seems me to be a quite interesting one.
DeleteI would ask you about possible danger during meeting with alien civilization. Are you not afraid that other civilizations, which could help us, want to conquer the Earth?
Yes you have right that meeting with alien can be quite dangerous some time ago I read interesting article the author was surprised that most people assume that aliens will be friendly to us which is not necessarily true and he gave many interesting examples of what can happen when that aliens won't be friendly. But personally I'm not afraid because I think the meeting with alien not happen during my life :)
Delete1. How important are cosmic research for us? What benefits do the give for ordinary people?
ReplyDeleteIs important because it inspire a whole generations to since education. Cosmic research are infinite source of problems to solve and solving this problems can be beneficial for other area of our live.
2. How many planets does our solar system contain? Do you think that the solar system will ever be researched as good as the Earth is nowadays?
Sooner or later we will get to this point but this article proves that solar system is not fully explored what was a surprise for me.
3. Should we spend such big money for cosmic research even if we are able to explore effectively only a small part of universe?
I believe that this amount of money that some countries (like US) spent nowadays cosmic research is more or less reasonable. Of cores some people believe that if they use this money for other prosperous like charity, it will be more beneficial for a humanity but I'm not in this group.
4. When will people be able to travel to different planets? If you had a such possibility, would you like to take a part in such expedition and why?
In next 50 years.
No I will be to old to travel.
5. Will future discoveries of new cosmic objects be depended more on astronomer (who are creating a new theories) work or on other engineers (who are creating better hardware and software) work?
For me theories are always more important then implementation of this theories like creating better hardware and softwarer but certainly both are important and one can not exist without the other
Would you like to visit a different planet if you were not to old for it? Why so? Why not?
DeleteIf teleportation would be an option - why not?
Delete1. I think space exploration is not very important for ordinary people, at least for now. Although it is worth noting that on the occasion of these studies, as a side effect, some important and needed areas of science will be developing. Perhaps this will change, if we start acquire minerals from other planets or the energy of the cosmos. A good example is the current network of telecommunications satellites.
ReplyDelete2. Officially, eight plus five (dwarf planets). I do not care how much, what does it matter? And the Earth is well-researched, really? I invite on expedition in the high mountains or even better into the depths of the oceans?
3. The oldest economic principle says better to invest foolishly than never. Therefore apparently, they built the pyramids in Egypt. How much to spend money on research, it is not the crucial question. I ask how spend money from the four possibilities (Milton Friedman):
• Your own money for their own needs.
• Your own money to other people's needs.
• Other people's money for my own needs.
• Other people's money for other people's needs.
4. In my opinion for a long time we will not be able to travel because of among others: not sufficient energy for such travel, problems of financing. Even if I had the opportunity, I would not want. I travel from birth in the greatest in a spaceship - the Earth. I noticed that the most valuable are those that relate to discovering other people!
5. It seems to me that more and more involved in the discoveries of space objects will be have scientists of information technology. We can do it by indirect methods (hardware, software) and by direct methods. These discover are through obtaining information and by interpretation of information. They are work which we scientists of information technology can do also, maybe even better than the others. Although we do it from a particular other perspective.
I did not want to suggest that the Earth is well researched. I have heard an opinion that researching ocean depths is technically more difficult than researching space. The main reason for it is to be huge pressure.
DeleteAbout one year ago scientists announced about discovering the giant squid (https://www.ted.com/talks/edith_widder_how_we_found_the_giant_squid) in ocean depths. I would ask you, what is possible to be discovered in high mountains? Apart from Yeti ;-).
About two years ago, has been discovered that exist previously unknown plants life and birds above the glaciers in the Alps (about 3000-3500 m). Even higher up, for example the Himalayas or Andes it is still a rather "ignota terra". This is the reason the story about the "Yeti" because it is difficult her to rule out, because of poor knowledge of these areas of land. To understand the difficulties of exploration of the Himalayas, we must realize that not exist the possibility of rescue 7000 m above.
Delete1. How important are cosmic research for us? What benefits do the give for ordinary people?
ReplyDeleteIt is definitely important for us. The speed we are destroying our Earth is high enough to result with the need to move somewhere else (different planet) in coming ages :)
2. How many planets does our solar system contain? Do you think that the solar system will ever be researched as well as the Earth is nowadays?
The speed of the light seems to be quite some barrier at the moment but I believe that we can cross it one day. Having the technology to travel that fast exploring far ends of our solar system is a matter of not very distant time.
3. Should we spend such big money for cosmic research even if we are able to explore effectively only a small part of universe?
Yes. Researches nowadays are multi-domain. Cosmic research does not mean that its results solely improve that sphere. Look at all the things that have been discovered while there was a race to reach the Moon. Most of the results serve well in ordinary life.
4. When will people be able to travel to different planets? If you had a such possibility, would you like to take a part in such expedition and why?
I think Mars is almost reachable. Technology is one thing and the crew is another. The mission to Mars would require to travel for several months in one way. I’ve listened to some Youtube material recorder at ISS (International Space Station). There is a huge psychological aspect of space travel. The possibility to look at Earth is very important for people out there. Travelling to Mars would bring the situation where for a long time those people would be deprived of that view. They would be surrounded by deep dark.
Higher distance travels would need some kind of a breakthrough in building space engines.
5. Will future discoveries of new cosmic objects be depended more on astronomer (who are creating a new theories) work or on other engineers (who are creating better hardware and software) work?
Both I believe. There is still a huge unknown dark matter to be discovered. It needs consolidated work of different kind of technologies.
I think that reaching far space areas is similar to exploring the Earth years ago (like Antarctica mentioned in your article). I suppose that space is a “better” area for many explorers than ocean depths because it allows them to reach farther and set next records (taking into consideration distances).
DeleteI would also prefer travelling to distant planets :)
DeleteI doubt there are any astronauts or cosmonauts who cared much about setting records or their own ego (well, maybe except those who paid to be taken for a ride, but even they have mission specific tasks to perform) :). Many never get to go to space and only go through training.
DeleteHere's a Soviet era cosmonaut answering questions:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/etu2s/i_was_born_in_shchigry_ru_in_1932_i_worked_as_a/
I think that spending money on cosmic research is always very controversial matter. Mainly because there is always a lot of monney involed in the process and everywhere where the big money is involved there are a lot of things doubts wheter it is allocated properlly. In my personal opinion cosmic research is quite important because it will be probbaly our future but not in nearest future. Because of that I think we should invest in it but not by the cost of our every day life, like spends for health systems or education.
ReplyDeleteManned space missions are the most likely area where further cost cuts will happen. Sending probes and autonomous robots yields more research possibilities at a lower cost for now. But thinking about the future, I agree that space research and human space travel may become more important once again.
Delete1. I'm very sorry but I am unable to answer to this question because I has never been interested in this topic. Probably yes, important ;)
ReplyDelete2. If I understand your question and referring to the wikipedia we have 8 planets, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune. As for the second part of the question i really don't know, maybe.
3. Actually it's depends what we really want to do? If we want only describe something new, or create universe maps then of course this have a sense. But if we want to do something more then I don't know. Who knows? Maybe we discover new "element" which we can use in our life.
4. I really don't know, you know? If yes then please tell me ;) As for the second part of the question, yes I will be happy to travel there and see something new, of course if this will be within my wallet.
5. In my honest opinion it will depend on engineers because this is more safe solution for everyone. We can explore this space after machines.
1. How important are cosmic research for us? What benefits do the give for
ReplyDeleteordinary people?
In my opinion cosmic studies are very important. Many discoveries were made
in the process of these studies and turned into very useful product common
in ordinary life now, like consumer electronics or instant noodle.
2. How many planets does our solar system contain? Do you think that the
solar system will ever be researched as well as the Earth is nowadays?
I don't know. One day we shall know our solar system better and we will map
every single body orbiting the Sun. Now it is too early to say.
3. Should we spend such big money for cosmic research even if we are able to
explore effectively only a small part of universe?
I think this questions is similar to the first one. Most of patents created
from exploring the universe become useful someday also for ordinary people.
Nowadays the capital investment in the area of cosmic research comes from
private corporations not from governmental agencies. Therefore the expense
is not really a question of wasting public money, but of investing in the
future, like moon mining for rare metals and earths. As long as it turn outs
into profitable enterprise, any business like SpaceX company will gladly
invest even enormous amounts of time and money.
4. When will people be able to travel to different planets? If you had a
such possibility, would you like to take a part in such expedition and why?
It's hard to say. Maybe I would like to take part in such a journey, but
when it is available I will be too old for such a travel. :)
5. Will future discoveries of new cosmic objects be depended more on
astronomer (who are creating a new theories) work or on other engineers (who
are creating better hardware and software) work?
In my opinion it will be the mix of both, but the work of engineers and
scientists will have a bigger impact
Very cool that we discover the world. Human being is very curious and always will invest big money in discovering the world. However, I am not for such ongoing actions. I we need to explore the universe,
ReplyDeletebut we invest a lot of money in this field. I think that there are more fields of science needed for humanity. There is also a lot of the poor, the hungry. For them, these studies really are not in any way relevant.
And as for me? I think that it in no way study did not have a positive impact on my life. I would like to study half of the money went treatment of people and for poor people. Since improvement of living
conditions in some regions of the world had to a very beneficial effect for humanity. We do not need to look for new areas if not can to control over what is already discovered.
1. How important are cosmic research for us? What benefits do the give for ordinary people?
ReplyDeleteCosmic research has a great impact on physics and related sciences, which in the long run quite often can be beneficial to other fields of science. So I would consider it one of priorities in modern sciences.
I cannot see any direct impact on “average” people concerning cosmic research.
2. How many planets does our solar system contain? Do you think that the solar system will ever be researched as well as the Earth is nowadays?
It is well known that solar system has eight planets and I don’t believe that will change. If we consider dwarf planets such as Pluto and two described in the article it’s clear that many new ones will be found. Kuiper belt is assumed to be constructed out of stone and ice debris so it’s quite possible that new dwarf planets or planetoids will be found.
I think that solar system is quite well researched up until now and I believe that amount of our knowledge about it is similar to the one that we have on oceanic depths.
3. Should we spend such big money for cosmic research even if we are able to explore effectively only a small part of universe?
It doesn’t matter how much of the universe we can explore but how much information, knowledge and possibly other benefits can we have out of it. I’m positive about spending money on such research.
4. When will people be able to travel to different planets? If you had a such possibility, would you like to take a part in such expedition and why?
I believe it’s only a matter of time and likely the first planet that human will visit will be Mars, as it is planned in few expeditions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manned_mission_to_Mars
I would be super happy to have a chance to visit another planet but only provided that I could come back!
5. Will future discoveries of new cosmic objects be depended more on astronomer (who are creating a new theories) work or on other engineers (who are creating better hardware and software) work?
It’s very hard to say but I’m thinking that theoretical scientists were having advantage over experimental scientists in the 19th and first part of 20th century. Nowadays I believe that simulation that is possible due to computers and advanced technology gives huge advantage over theoretical scientists.
1. How important are cosmic research for us? What benefits do the give for ordinary people?
ReplyDeleteBasic research is the most important tests. Affect every aspect of our lives from the philosophy to science.
2. How many planets does our solar system contain? Do you think that the solar system will ever be researched as well as the Earth is nowadays?
Now we have turned away from the cosmos and we are busy exploring the earth's resources. When you run out of resources on Earth. Discover and move in the entire solar system in one generation.
3. Should we spend such big money for cosmic research even if we are able to explore effectively only a small part of universe?
And what should we waste money for a new record the Justin Bieber finally he is the real star and not "Betelgeuse three" in Orion's belt.
4. When will people be able to travel to different planets? If you had a such possibility, would you like to take a part in such expedition and why?
I'm not a pioneer. I would not want to explore the boundaries of today's cosmos. I am the first to explore the cosmos in a spaceship Enterprise-E with Captain Jean-Luc Picard.
5. Will future discoveries of new cosmic objects be depended more on astronomer (who are creating a new theories) work or on other engineers (who are creating better hardware and software) work?
New discoveries will depend on both of these factors, new theories, better equipment.